Some shake-up to occur?

[SSH2005]

We have other options?  I don't really think that we do.  If we have to make Cotts our closer, our bullpen gets significantly worse.  Basically, if Jenks isn't good enough to close, he won't be good enough for the 8th inning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry, Matt Thornton will save us.

 

I'm still waiting to see the roster cuts coming up. There may be a decent reliever or two available. I realize that Kenny wants to keep Thornton on the roster so he won't lose him to waivers but we could still carry 7 relievers. I like Ozuna but with Mackowiak, Cintron, and Gload on the bench, he is basically a pinch-runner. Ozuna has a split contract -- he will earn $500,000 if he is in the major leagues or $330,000 if he is in the minors. If a decent reliever becomes available, I think KW should pick him up and send Ozuna to Charlotte. If we need Ozuna due to an injury or whatever, try to slip Thornton through waivers then and bring up Ozuna.

 

Matt Thornton: extreme blowout mop-up guy (Jon Adkins' role from last season)

Boone Logan: LOOGY

Extra reliever picked up during roster cuts: middle relief (replacing Hermanson)

Edited March 23, 2006 by SSH2005

[fathom]

The thing that I don't understand with bringing in Thornton is that the last thing we needed to add to our bullpen was an extremely inconsistent reliever who's a huge question mark and, by every statistical standard, not deserving of being in the majors.

Edited March 23, 2006 by fathom

[SSH2005]

The thing that I don't understand with bringing in Thornton is that the last thing we needed to add to our bullpen was an extremely inconsistent reliever who's a huge question mark and, by every statistical standard, not deserving of being in the majors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's a lefty that throws 96 MPH. GM's and pitching coaches fall in love with these guys. KW thinks that Cooper can fix him and make him throw strikes. It probably won't work but we needed bullpen help with Hermanson likely headed for the DL. Of course, Thornton is more likely to hurt us than help us IMO. I just hope that KW won't disregard any decent relievers that may become available during roster cuts just because he added Thornton.

[jphat007]

Take a look at these pitching stats. Just interesting to see. I wonder if Cleveland is really worried?

 

Cleveland

 

And Minny for another comparison.

 

Minny

[SSH2005]

Take a look at these pitching stats. Just interesting to see. I wonder if Cleveland is really worried?

 

Cleveland

 

And Minny for another comparison.

 

Minny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As far as I know, neither the Indians nor the Twins are depending on a reliever with 5.1 innings at Single A as his highest level like Boone Logan and a horrible reliever who can't throw strikes like Matt Thornton.

[fathom]

Take a look at these pitching stats. Just interesting to see. I wonder if Cleveland is really worried?

 

Cleveland

 

And Minny for another comparison.

 

Minny

 

Is their manager stating that Nathan and Wickman might have to be removed from the closer role? Does one of their main relievers have a back injury that has robbed him of all of his stuff on the mound? Jphat.....the thing that should bother us Sox fans is that our manager, GM, and the biggest homer of them all, Hawk, seem very worried about the bullpen. We have too much talent and money invested in our starting pitching to have it fall apart in close games in the 8th and 9th innings.

[jphat007]

As far as I know, neither the Indians nor the Twins are depending on a reliever with 5.1 innings at Single A as his highest level like Boone Logan and a horrible reliever who can't throw strikes like Matt Thornton.

 

I didnt say anything about them. I was just linking their ST stats for people to see.

[jphat007]

Is their manager stating that Nathan and Wickman might have to be removed from the closer role?  Does one of their main relievers have a back injury that has robbed him of all of his stuff on the mound?    Jphat.....the thing that should bother us Sox fans is that our manager, GM, and the biggest homer of them all, Hawk, seem very worried about the bullpen.  We have too much talent and money invested in our starting pitching to have it fall apart in close games in the 8th and 9th innings.

 

Hey, you can worry abotu it all you want. I wouldn't expect otherwise. Ozzie was saying that to fire up Jenk and get him going. Just like he has for every other position on our team at one time or another. He has a much different way of managing than Wedge or Gardenhire. YOu should know, you blasted him for it all through last year right up until the end of Game 3 in the WS.

[Wedge]

Don't worry, Matt Thornton will save us. 

 

Fine... when he doesn't completely such ass this year, you're eating crow!

[SSH2005]

Hey, you can worry abotu it all you want. I wouldn't expect otherwise. Ozzie was saying that to fire up Jenk and get him going. Just like he has for every other position on our team at one time or another. He has a much different way of managing than Wedge or Gardenhire. YOu should know, you blasted him for it all through last year right up until the end of Game 3 in the WS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think so. Ozzie said that he already had a meeting with Jenks last week to get him motivated and serious about the closing job. The reason Ozzie is worried about Jenks is probably because he looks horrible this spring and is walking the world.

Edited March 23, 2006 by SSH2005

[RockRaines]

We eat Wickman for lunch and dinner though.

[fathom]

Hey, you can worry abotu it all you want. I wouldn't expect otherwise. Ozzie was saying that to fire up Jenk and get him going. Just like he has for every other position on our team at one time or another. He has a much different way of managing than Wedge or Gardenhire. YOu should know, you blasted him for it all through last year right up until the end of Game 3 in the WS.

 

Ummm....I'm actually happy that Ozzie is trying to fire up Jenks. He came in out of shape, and looks very uncomfortable on the mound. If he keeps up these poor mechanics, he's just begging for a serious injury with the way he throws. I've been saying all along that Jenks is not a known commodity, and it's not like we can just put him on the mound this season and be guaranteed 35 saves (like the Twins can do with Nathan).

 

Funny you mention Game 3 of the WS though, as that was the only game in which I thought Ozzie didn't manage exceptionally well (how in the hell did he put Hermanson in for the 8th inning when he hadn't pitched in a decade?). It worked out well though, and I'd have to say that there's a lot more people worried about the bullpen than I am. I just don't want a case like the Cubs last year where you have a very strong, expensive starting pitching staff see it's performance ruined on a frequent basis because the bullpen can't get the last 7 outs of the game.

[jphat007]

Ummm....I'm actually happy that Ozzie is trying to fire up Jenks.  He came in out of shape, and looks very uncomfortable on the mound.  If he keeps up these poor mechanics, he's just begging for a serious injury with the way he throws.  I've been saying all along that Jenks is not a known commodity, and it's not like we can just put him on the mound this season and be guaranteed 35 saves (like the Twins can do with Nathan).

 

Funny you mention Game 3 of the WS though, as that was the only game in which I thought Ozzie didn't manage exceptionally well (how in the hell did he put Hermanson in for the 8th inning when he hadn't pitched in a decade?).  It worked out well though, and I'd have to say that there's a lot more people worried about the bullpen than I am.  I just don't want a case like the Cubs last year where you have a very strong, expensive starting pitching staff see it's performance ruined on a frequent basis because the bullpen can't get the last 7 outs of the game.

 

Well it's what we got. We'll either live with it or we'll die with it. But like I say. The top 4 will be fine. Jenks will get his speed back at the end of spring like he has said all along and then he can stop nibbling.

 

I don't necessarily like the mop up situation the way it is, but it won't have an effect on very many ballgames so I'm not particularly worried about the last 2 guys in our pen.

 

No sense worrying about it at this point. It is what it is, and there's not much we can do to change it.

 

PS. Jenks wasnt out of shape. Allen Thomas said he put too much muscle on in the offseason. I'm not sure if that affects his pitching all that much. Who knows

Edited March 23, 2006 by jphat007

[SSH2005]

Well it's what we got. We'll either live with it or we'll die with it. But like I say. The top 4 will be fine. Jenks will get his speed back at the end of spring like he has said all along and then he can stop nibbling.

 

I don't necessarily like the mop up situation the way it is, but it won't have an effect on very many ballgames so I'm not particularly worried about the last 2 guys in our pen.

 

No sense worrying about it at this point. It is what it is, and there's not much we can do to change it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, there is. If a better reliever becomes available, pick the guy up and take Thornton or Ozuna off the roster if you have to. There will more than likely be a few relievers cut who are better than Thornton.

 

Just ask Mariners' fans if Thornton won't have an effect on very many ballgames in mop-up situations...

 

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/story/2006/3/20/204935/255

Edited March 23, 2006 by SSH2005

[SSH2005]

You would be the WORST GM EVER. Im 100% positive Kenny and Co. dont have your same philosophy. Williams has to be kicking himself that he didnt push harder for Myers when we had the chance, and also that Vizciano was part of the deal for Vazquez. Its scary how good Vizciano looks in this pen right now.

 

No one is happy with the bullpen right now, and im sure Kenny and Ozzie are on the top of the list. Unless this spring has been a TOTAL fluke, and everything is fine come April 2nd(I dont believe it will be), there will be a few new faces by July, at the latest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It really is scary, and I hated Vizcaino. I thought that Hermanson would be replacing Vizcaino's role for this season. I thought wrong.

[jphat007]

Yes, there is.  If a better reliever becomes available, pick the guy up and take Thornton or Ozuna off the roster if you have to.  There will more than likely be a few relievers cut who are better than Thornton.

 

Just ask Mariners' fans if Thornton won't have an effect on very many ballgames in mop-up situations...

 

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/story/2006/3/20/204935/255

 

Well, if we have to start him some yes, but he is our 5th or 6th guy out of our bullpen. He'll mop up in the blowouts and occasionally get an important inning.

 

A better reliever isn't going to become available for us. Have you seen the prices out there for relievers? Plus we are on the bottom of the waiver list.

[SSH2005]

Well, if we have to start him some yes, but he is our 5th or 6th guy out of our bullpen. He'll mop up in the blowouts and occasionally get an important inning.

 

A better reliever isn't going to become available for us. Have you seen the prices out there for relievers? Plus we are on the bottom of the waiver list.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I suggest you read the timeline of Thornton's outings at that link. He actually blew games in mop-up situations.

 

Once again, there will be relievers cut during roster trimming in a week or so that are better than Thornton. I hope that KW doesn't just stick with Thornton because he's out of options.

Edited March 23, 2006 by SSH2005

[jphat007]

You would be the WORST GM EVER. Im 100% positive Kenny and Co. dont have your same philosophy. Williams has to be kicking himself that he didnt push harder for Myers when we had the chance, and also that Vizciano was part of the deal for Vazquez. Its scary how good Vizciano looks in this pen right now.

 

No one is happy with the bullpen right now, and im sure Kenny and Ozzie are on the top of the list. Unless this spring has been a TOTAL fluke, and everything is fine come April 2nd(I dont believe it will be), there will be a few new faces by July, at the latest.

 

First. Spring stats mean nothing. Second, how would I be the worst GM ever? I'm advocating doing exactly what KW did and is doing? Prices are rediculous for relievers, so he chose to upgrade in other areas.

 

I'm sorry you think KW is the worst GM ever. He didn't have the extra money to give our 5th or 6th guy out of the bullpen. You are way overrating what the backend of a bullpen means to a team. I'm sure there will be a name or two different in the bullpen in July too, but I said RIGHT NOW. Sorry you didnt see that. Also sorry that you don't like KW as a GM.

[jphat007]

I suggest you read the timeline of Thornton's outings at that link.  He actually blew games in mop-up situations.

 

Once again, there will be relievers cut during roster trimming in a week or so that are better than Thornton.  I hope that KW doesn't just stick with Thornton because he's out of options.

 

He's planning on it. You should too.

[jphat007]

 

I thought you liked KW. What happened?

[fathom]

BTW, I'm still of the opinion that we should trade Contreras and prospect for Lidge and a top Astros pitching prospect. There's no doubt in my mind that McCarthy is better suited for being a starter, and not a reliever.

Edited March 23, 2006 by fathom

[jphat007]

You misunderstood my dislike for you and Kenny.

 

Well, it's not about liking the person, it's about the philosophy, and what I've said is I'm fine with the moves KW made in teh offseason. Strengthen the offense, bench and rotation, while sacrificing the back end of the bullpen. That's what I would ahve done as well. And I also wouldn't give up tons and tons for a reliver at this point before we even start the season, which appears to be KW's thinking.

 

So I'm fine with what he's done and would do the same. You said that would make me the worst GM ever so since it is the same that tells me you would think the same of Kenny.

 

Don't confuse staying with what we have as being satisfied with what we have. KW is never satisfied.

Edited March 23, 2006 by jphat007

[GreatScott82]

Thorton sucks, he better not be in our pen. I'd rather see young pitchers like Logan develope then see Thorton blow games in mop up situations. Lets face it, without a bullpen we are NOT repeating. With the injury to Hermy and the rapid loss of velocity to Jenks, we are in trouble. Your right, Vizcaino would look great in our pen right now. I know for a fact KW is out there right now trying to find somebody. THe problem is, no team will be willing to trade any of there premier relievers in spring training. KW's only solution for now is to work within the organization for pitchers and right now the only one is consistently cutting the mustard is Logan and on occasion Lopez.

And as far as Iguchi goes, I hope he goes back to the 2 hole, its where he belongs and he makes us stronger there.

[jphat007]

Thorton sucks, he better not be in our pen. I'd rather see young pitchers like Logan develope then see Thorton blow games in mop up situations. Lets face it, without a bullpen we are NOT repeating. With the injury to Hermy and the rapid loss of velocity to Jenks, we are in trouble. Your right, Vizcaino would look great in our pen right now. I know for a fact KW is out there right now trying to find somebody. THe problem is, no team will be willing to trade any of there premier relievers in spring training. KW's only solution for now is to work within the organization for pitchers and right now the only one is consistently cutting the mustard is Logan and on occasion Lopez.

And as far as Iguchi goes, I hope he goes back to the 2 hole, its where he belongs and he makes us stronger there.

 

If it was between Logan and Thornton I would love for KW to go with Logan. I don't think it's between both though. I think they are both coming in the place of Hermy unless he has no pain all of a sudden. Coop and KW think they can straighten Thornton out. I don't necessarily like it but I think it's safe to say that they have earned the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

[SSH2005]

It won't be hard to find a reliever better than Thornton when the roster cuts commence. The guy has a 1.68 career WHIP. That's just plain awful. Ricky Bottalico was just released by the Orioles. He's older than dirt but he would probably outperform Thornton.