Arizona proposing illegal immigrant crackdown.

[BigSqwert]

A wall, technology, a moat...whatever.

Great idea. Lets build something like this. Worked really well in Germany.

 

[samclemens]

this problem could be fixed if we slowly but surely sealed the border. anything done to fast will adversly affect the economy. i dont like an amnesty anyway because its simply unfair to the people who legally immigrate, but i also am against an amnesty because it will adversely affect the economy, contrary to texsox's claim. sorry texsox, but to claim that making 12 million illegals citizens overnight will not cost the government more is a rediculous statement. Its going to cost more than we take in. I dont need economic data to back that up; its common sense.

[Balta1701]

I dont need economic data to back that up; its common sense.

[Texsox]

Of the overall small percentage of Americans that are out of work, how many will take a job at $6 an hour when they were making $25 as a middle manager?

 

A realistic immigration policy, with guest workers, will do far more than a fence, wall, moat, etc. will. We have survived for hundreds of years without a fence.

[EvilMonkey]

Of the overall small percentage of Americans that are out of work, how many will take a job at $6 an hour when they were making $25 as a middle manager?

 

A realistic immigration policy, with guest workers, will do far more than a fence, wall, moat, etc. will. We have survived for hundreds of years without a fence.

Thats assuming that all the unemployed americans were $25 per hour middle managers. I went from $36,000 a year office manager job (with benefits) to $8 per hour Rent-a-Center peon in the early 90's after 6 months of enemployment, because I needed to work. Not everyone would do it, but some would.

A realistic immigration policy, with guest workers, AND some kind of wall (physical or electronic, or a combination) would be the best solution. Stop the flow now, and work on assimilating the ones here.

[Balta1701]

A realistic immigration policy, with guest workers, AND some kind of wall (physical or electronic, or a combination) would be the best solution. Stop the flow now, and work on assimilating the ones here.

See, now this is a sensible set of solutions. Good compromise, coudl be made to work all around.

 

The problem is, there is a powerful group in this country that is so insistent on punishing the ones here and making sure that is item #1 in any solution to the immigration issue that it has sabotaged any hope of an actual fair compromise that would actually put us in a good situation for the future.

[Texsox]

Thats assuming that all the unemployed americans were $25 per hour middle managers. I went from $36,000 a year office manager job (with benefits) to $8 per hour Rent-a-Center peon in the early 90's after 6 months of enemployment, because I needed to work.  Not everyone would do it, but some would.

A realistic immigration policy, with guest workers, AND some kind of wall (physical or electronic, or a combination) would be the best solution. Stop the flow now, and work on assimilating the ones here.

 

There are hundreds of thousands of border crossing daily, how would you control that? American workers and tourists are heading back and forth to Mexico. Mexican nationals are shopping, going to school, (Paying out of district tuition), etc.

 

A wall is nice, but shall we destroy our tourism in the process? Is it worth destroying American communities in the process of stopping illegals? And how do we secure the sea shore?

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

There are hundreds of thousands of border crossing daily, how would you control that? American workers and tourists are heading back and forth to Mexico. Mexican nationals are shopping, going to school, (Paying out of district tuition), etc.

 

A wall is nice, but shall we destroy our tourism in the process? Is it worth destroying American communities in the process of stopping illegals? And how do we secure the sea shore?

 

 

Explain how a wall destroys tourism. Seems to me that those who are coming and going for a day or so have some financial means about them and dont need to cross through some desert or across a river to go do some shopping.

[EvilMonkey]

There are hundreds of thousands of border crossing daily, how would you control that? American workers and tourists are heading back and forth to Mexico. Mexican nationals are shopping, going to school, (Paying out of district tuition), etc.

 

A wall is nice, but shall we destroy our tourism in the process? Is it worth destroying American communities in the process of stopping illegals? And how do we secure the sea shore?

Ever hear of a gate?

[Texsox]

Explain how a wall destroys tourism.  Seems to me that those who are coming and going for a day or so have some financial means about them and dont need to cross through some desert or across a river to go do some shopping.

 

So now you built a wall, but you have holes all over that allow hundreds of thousands of people through. Does that make sense? Also, at the present time we have two layers of tourism. We, the same as Mexico, allow easier access to about 50 miles on both sides. Beyond that you need different paperwork, different car insurance and car import permits, etc. Where are you going to build the wall? On the border, or at the interior checkpoints? At the border, do you require full Visas now for entry, that eliminates many of the tourists and shoppers.

 

So then you tighten those holes, and the ripple effect starts. Already many manufacturers are looking to move from the border to China. Make border crossing more difficult and moving to China begins to look better.

[Balta1701]

Ever hear of a gate?

Have you ever tried to cross the border at one of the places where there is a wall and a gate? Hope you have a good 3 hours on a fast day...if you really want inspections of every vehicle, hope you have a good 12.

[Controlled Chaos]

See, now this is a sensible set of solutions.  Good compromise, coudl be made to work all around.

 

The problem is, there is a powerful group in this country that is so insistent on punishing the ones here and making sure that is item #1 in any solution to the immigration issue that it has sabotaged any hope of an actual fair compromise that would actually put us in a good situation for the future.

 

I don't think that's #1 to a lot of people. I actually believe that if we put up a wall or use technology or whatever to STOP the flow of illegals and are assured we won't have this issue come up again in 10 years, then the American public will comprimise on amnesty for those here now.

 

But it seems it is also #1 for some people to be against a wall or securing the borders no matter what.

[YASNY]

I don't think that's #1 to a lot of people.  I actually believe that if we put up a wall or use technology or whatever to STOP the flow of illegals and are assured we won't have this issue come up again in 10 years, then the American public will comprimise on amnesty for those here now.

 

But it seems it is also #1 for some people to be against a wall or securing the borders no matter what.

 

Secure borders. What a concept.

[Texsox]

I haven't seen anyone talk about no security, it's the level of security that is relevant. We have thousands of miles of coastline, shall we mine along the coasts? Which wall shall we build first? The Canadian or the Mexican? After all *security* isn't very secure if we build a giant wall on only one side.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't think that's #1 to a lot of people.  I actually believe that if we put up a wall or use technology or whatever to STOP the flow of illegals and are assured we won't have this issue come up again in 10 years, then the American public will comprimise on amnesty for those here now.

 

But it seems it is also #1 for some people to be against a wall or securing the borders no matter what.

I'm all for securing the borders, just not with a monstrosity of a wall. There are better ways. And if we reduce demand here, and employ a guest worker program and changes to visa levels, the problem will reduce (not go away) on its own.

 

As for amnesty for illegals, I have a hard time stomaching that. They violated laws, and not small ones. They, like the companies who hired them, should be punished. I don't think rounding them all up is practical (or politically smart), but I have no problem with law enforcement sending them back as they happen across them.

[Controlled Chaos]

I haven't seen anyone talk about no security, it's the level of security that is relevant. We have thousands of miles of coastline, shall we mine along the coasts? Which wall shall we build first? The Canadian or the Mexican? After all *security* isn't very secure if we build a giant wall on only one side.

 

You know where the problem is Tex.

[Texsox]

You know where the problem is Tex.

 

So the security isn't from terrorists, it's to keep out minimum wage earners from coming to the US.

 

If they could come here legally, wouldn't that eliminate the need for a fence?

[EvilMonkey]

So the security isn't from terrorists, it's to keep out minimum wage earners from coming to the US.

 

If they could come here legally, wouldn't that eliminate the need for a fence?

They CAN come here legally, they just choose not to go that route and wait in line.

[Texsox]

They CAN come here legally, they just choose not to go that route and wait in line.

 

Exacty. Finally something we can agree on. So we speed up the line, there seems to be employers waiting for them, and the problem is solved.

[southsideirish71]

Exacty. Finally something we can agree on. So we speed up the line, there seems to be employers waiting for them, and the problem is solved.

 

Legal immigrants have to go through a process where the US figures out who you are, where you came from. Illegal immigrants didnt provide any of these papers. Its okay to put on the rosey colored glasses and say that all illegal immigrants are here to get the american dream. But just based on logic, some of them are criminals or are here for other reasons. So just because they broke the law and they protest we should just give in. We need to identify who these people are, what their backgrounds are, and what their purpose is in this country.

 

As I have said in previous threads on this subject. No matter how many work visas you give out, there will always be someone on the outside looking in. We cant just have totally open borders. Will they wait for a work visa? Or are they just going to come across and hope for more protests and another wave of immunity.

 

And the comments about the employers waiting for them. Well they are waiting for them, at a below minimum wage standard. Which of course is against the law.

Edited May 9, 2006 by southsideirish71

[YASNY]

Just one reason why we need to know who is coming into our country.

 

 

Link

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Just one reason why we need to know who is coming into our country.

Link

 

But the rappers keep telling me how great the gangsta life is!

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Secure borders.  What a concept.

 

I've yet to see anyone on here argue for open borders. Nice try though.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

They CAN come here legally, they just choose not to go that route and wait in line.

 

The current system is a joke.

 

Fixing it would probably do wonders.

[YASNY]

I've yet to see anyone on here argue for open borders.  Nice try though.

 

You're right. They just argue against any proposal that would restrict free movement across the border. Any restriction would have some dire consequences.