With all the hype surrounding Ortiz, Jeter and Dye as MVP candidates, I am surprised more people arent talking about Manny. He has putting up MVP type numbers of his own, much more quietly than the much more hyped Ortiz.

 

Manny

.323 .440 OBP .622 SLG 34 hr 100 RBI

 

Ortiz

.283 .396 OBP .624 SLG 47 hr 121 RBI

 

Jeter

.344 .420 OBP .485 SLG 12 hr 85 RBI

 

Dye

.325 .392 OBP .645 SLG 40 hr 109 RBI

 

Manny's ridiculous OBP is what got my attention last night. .440 is among the best in the league, and his .323 BA is impressive IMO. Jermaine's SLG is equally impressive as is his defense.

 

 

 

ALso two other players that wont garner much attention, one because he is in Minny, and the other because his team hasnt been performing.

 

Hafner

.308 .439 OBP .659 SLG 42 hr 117 rbi

 

Morneau

.319 .372 OBP .583 SLG 33 hr 115 rbi

 

 

I do not believe Morneau is quite there yet, but Hafner is one of the most impressive hitters in the AL IMO. And he seemed to be forgotten this year. His numbers are ridiculous.

 

What do you guys think?

Edited September 7, 200619 yr by RockRaines

If the Red Sox continue to fade, Papi will for sure lose out b/c he is a DH. I think the only shot Dye has at getting it is if we make the playoffs, b/c of the East Coast bias.

I've seen a couple articles saying Frank's just outside the bubble of MVP contenders. I found that to be cool.

IMO it should really be between Morneau and Dye with Dye currently kicking the crap out of him, so in other words it should be Dye.

 

There's absolutely no reason to even mention Ortiz, Ramirez and Hafner seeing how pathetic their teams are and their numbers are not so outragous to where they overshadow the other guys in the running.

Why doesn't Joe Mauer get more consideration? Out of all the candidates, he plays the most demanding defensive position, and he's arguably the best defender at his position, as opposed to all the others, who are either a.) average or worse at their position or b.) don't even play defense.

 

Mauer is second in Win Shares behind Jeter and Manny, FWIW.

 

BTW, I do realize that Mauer probably won't even finish in the top five, because for whatever reason, writers don't care about defense. It's funny, really, they b**** about guys like Hafner and Ortiz not playing defense, yet they don't give great defense its due, in the cases of guys like Mauer and Beltran (who, IMO, should win the NL MVP in a landslide).

 

I'd rank the candidates like this, personally, based on where their respective teams are at, offense, and defense...

 

1.)Jeter

2.)Mauer

3.)Dye

 

and, in the NL

 

1.)Beltran

 

 

2.)Pujols/Howard

3.)Howard/Pujols

 

EDIT: This post probably makes it seem like I'm really discrediting Dye. I think the AL MVP race is extremely close at this point, and it'll probably come down to a combination of whose team makes the playoffs, and to which player has the most 'moments' (ala Dye's homer vs Nathan).

Edited September 7, 200619 yr by CWSGuy406

IMO it should really be between Morneau and Dye with Dye currently kicking the crap out of him, so in other words it should be Dye.

 

There's absolutely no reason to even mention Ortiz, Ramirez and Hafner seeing how pathetic their teams are and their numbers are not so outragous to where they overshadow the other guys in the running.

Morneau's numbers are very far below the other guys though.

After the diving catch by Dye yesterday, I think you can put him up in the ranks with good defensive players. He may not be a gold glove, but he is certainly above average. He has carried this team at times AND he is coming back from an injury. These are the years he should've had if not for that freak injury of fouling the ball off his leg.

 

Ortiz is having a mammoth season, as usual, but this year, there are people close that DO play defense. If you ask me:

 

1) Dye

2) Ortiz

3) Mauer

 

Morneau hasn't carried the team, Manny is HORRIBLE in LF and Jeter just doesn't do it for me.

unless the yankees pull a choke job and dont make the playoffs then due to east coast bias it's most likely going to Jeter, its should go to Dye...but all we can do is hope?

 

Can the sox fans vote for the mvp?

Red Sox fade kills off the shot of Manny or Ortiz being MVP I think. However I agree with what I believe is the premise of this thread, which is Manny isn't getting enough props this year and might be more of an MVP candidate than Big Papi. As for MVP, if we make the playoffs it's Dye, if Minny does it's Morneau, and if Detroit collapses and both make it, flip a coin. I refuse to give Jeter and his shockingly overrated defense, along with lack of run production, a lifetime achievement award MVP.

Red Sox fade kills off the shot of Manny or Ortiz being MVP I think. However I agree with what I believe is the premise of this thread, which is Manny isn't getting enough props this year and might be more of an MVP candidate than Big Papi. As for MVP, if we make the playoffs it's Dye, if Minny does it's Morneau, and if Detroit collapses and both make it, flip a coin. I refuse to give Jeter and his shockingly overrated defense, along with lack of run production, a lifetime achievement award MVP.

I just dont get the Morneau love. His numbers just arent that great IMO, his slugging avg is well below the main guys in that group, and he also doesnt play defense.

I just dont get the Morneau love. His numbers just arent that great IMO, his slugging avg is well below the main guys in that group, and he also doesnt play defense.

 

Neither does Jeter (contrary to the lies ESPN tells us), Ortiz, Ramirez, and even Dye is average. Defense has no factor in this year's AL MVP at all. Also, I'll admit, I'd give it to Morneau if I have to just because as poor a candidate as he is, Jeter is worse, easily.

Neither does Jeter (contrary to the lies ESPN tells us), Ortiz, Ramirez, and even Dye is average. Defense has no factor in this year's AL MVP at all. Also, I'll admit, I'd give it to Morneau if I have to just because as poor a candidate as he is, Jeter is worse, easily.

Thats what I meant, if you completely take out defense, Morneau is not exactly up to par with Dye, Manny, or Ortiz.

Thats what I meant, if you completely take out defense, Morneau is not exactly up to par with Dye, Manny, or Ortiz.

 

Agreed. But Manny and Ortiz's team is collapsing, which kinda takes them out of this, and if Dye's team doesn't make the playoffs, he won't get it either. I'm just saying if it came down to Morneau and Jeter, give it to Morneau. But if that happens, Jeter has the award on lockdown (if he doesn't already ).

Edited September 7, 200619 yr by whitesoxfan101

Jeter.

I have heard a couple of guys who vote (Stark, Olney) say Dye is the MVP, which is a good sign.

When the Twins looked like they were basically done and the offense had gone to s***, Justin Morneau was the one who stepped it up and went on an absolute tear. His season stats may not be is eye-popping as the rest but when the Twins needed it the most Justin Morneau came up huge and helped a team that seemed to be dead in the water climb back into the playoff race.

I just dont get the Morneau love. His numbers just arent that great IMO, his slugging avg is well below the main guys in that group, and he also doesnt play defense.

 

 

Morneau has 7 errors this year in 1211 chances (.994)

Dye has 5 errors in 275 chances (.982)

Jeter has 12 errors in 521 chances (.977)

 

I know errors is a stat left up to the scorekeeper, but maybe you are shortchanging him on defense a bit

 

Morneau is no gold glover, but it is no error machine either

Why doesn't Joe Mauer get more consideration? Out of all the candidates, he plays the most demanding defensive position, and he's arguably the best defender at his position, as opposed to all the others, who are either a.) average or worse at their position or b.) don't even play defense.

 

Mauer is second in Win Shares behind Jeter and Manny, FWIW.

 

BTW, I do realize that Mauer probably won't even finish in the top five, because for whatever reason, writers don't care about defense. It's funny, really, they b**** about guys like Hafner and Ortiz not playing defense, yet they don't give great defense its due, in the cases of guys like Mauer and Beltran (who, IMO, should win the NL MVP in a landslide).

 

I'd rank the candidates like this, personally, based on where their respective teams are at, offense, and defense...

 

1.)Jeter

2.)Mauer

3.)Dye

 

and, in the NL

 

1.)Beltran

 

 

2.)Pujols/Howard

3.)Howard/Pujols

 

EDIT: This post probably makes it seem like I'm really discrediting Dye. I think the AL MVP race is extremely close at this point, and it'll probably come down to a combination of whose team makes the playoffs, and to which player has the most 'moments' (ala Dye's homer vs Nathan).

 

What he said. I would only disagree to the point that Mauer and Dye are closer. At this point, I think it's Jeter's to lose. His team will be playing in October, he finally put together a full season, not just a second half.

Dye should be the MVP, but with Jeter against him I doubt it.

 

Since were talking about individual awards I want to mention how stupid the ESPN guy sounded after Lowell made the great diving grab to say that it was either Lowell or Chavez for the GG. Once again he won't win it because of Lowell being in Boston, but to not even mention Crede makes him sound like a complete moron.

Morneau has 7 errors this year in 1211 chances (.994)

Dye has 5 errors in 275 chances (.982)

Jeter has 12 errors in 521 chances (.977)

 

I know errors is a stat left up to the scorekeeper, but maybe you are shortchanging him on defense a bit

 

Morneau is no gold glover, but it is no error machine either

 

If you go by fielding percent you have to compare the player to others of his position. And of 1B with enough games to count Morneau is in the bottom half of the league in fielding % while Jeter/Dye are more close to middle of the pack.

good point, but Yahoo doesnt have a sortable defensive stat thing. Morneau used to be a train wreck defesively (especially filling the shoes of Mientkiewicz), but he has really improved this year.

 

btw, Dye would be #1 on my MVP ballot

Rightly, it should go to whichever player out of Dye and Morneau has the better September and leads his team to a playoff spot. Jeter's numbers are nice but they don't even deserve to be discussed with the other 2.

 

If both teams make the playoffs somehow...whoever has the better September gets it.

Dye should be the MVP, but Jeter probably has a good shot, being that he's Jeter.

 

Dye should be the MVP, but with Jeter against him I doubt it.

 

Since were talking about individual awards I want to mention how stupid the ESPN guy sounded after Lowell made the great diving grab to say that it was either Lowell or Chavez for the GG. Once again he won't win it because of Lowell being in Boston, but to not even mention Crede makes him sound like a complete moron.

 

Chavez has had a trainwreck of a year due to injuries and Lowell's range isn't that great.

 

It should be between Crede and Inge, too bad they're in the Al Central....

Edited September 8, 200619 yr by loltrain

If you go by fielding percent you have to compare the player to others of his position. And of 1B with enough games to count Morneau is in the bottom half of the league in fielding % while Jeter/Dye are more close to middle of the pack.

 

By saber standards, and yes I know not too many of you care but I'll throw them out here anyway , your absoltley correct.

 

Morneau is a below average fielding 1st, while Dye and Jeter are around average to slightly below average fielder's at thier respective positions.

Edited September 8, 200619 yr by SABR Sox