Gun control debate

[Balta1701]

All I can think of is the episode of Homer challenging everyone to a duel.

Krusty: Hey, yutz! Guns aren't toys. They're for family protection, hunting dangerous or delicious animals, and keeping the King of England out of your face.

[Texsox]

I'd rather have less blood baths and sad hunters than a society of trigger happy criminals. Take up fishing.

 

Whaaaat? How is fishing and hunting even closely related? It's a logical as saying stop playing baseball and start boxing.

 

Just a minor note. Carry on.

[Balta1701]

Whaaaat? How is fishing and hunting even closely related? It's a logical as saying stop playing baseball and start boxing.

 

Just a minor note. Carry on.

The easiest way I've ever found to be successful while fishing is to go out on a boat, point the M-60 downwards, and just go to down.

 

*Small note...make sure the M-60 is aimed outside your boat before you begin firing*

[BigSqwert]

Whaaaat? How is fishing and hunting even closely related? It's a logical as saying stop playing baseball and start boxing.

 

Just a minor note. Carry on.

I realize there is not much of a connection but if my ideal society were to exist the hunters who use guns would have to take on another hobby. I threw fishing out there but I guess you can still hunt with a bow and possibly some other weapons. I'm not a hunter so I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about.

[Texsox]

Nobody is more misinformed about guns than the media.

 

They actually said something along the lines of "He used a .22, that's a very powerful gun." They also harp "semi-auto" over and over again. What handgun ISN'T semi-auto?

 

Revolvers would not be considered semi-automatic.

 

I remember this from my ballistics class.

 

The instructor put 2 guns side by side. One was this pussy looking .22, and the other was a Glock 9mm. He then asked which one will you rather not get shot with. Everyone looked and said, the 9mm. More power.

 

The instructor said he would rather get a round from a 9mm. Its a high velocity round, and a lot of times runs right through you. While the .22 is a soft round, and has a tendency to ricochet through the body creating a lot of secondary damage. This is the round where you see someone get shot in shoulder, and the bullet winds up in the liver. People think its a glorified BB gun, when it can and will kill you.

 

An FBI agent once shared with me that he, and many of his colleagues, are more nervous from a .22 than a large handgun for another reason. The guy pulling the trigger is usually more intimidated by the 9mm and would flinch, start to recoil, etc. and many times drop the weapon after the first shot. The same guy with a .22 would just keep blip blip blip and is much more likely to hit you. I don't know about y'all but I'm much more accurate with a .22 than something larger.

 

I also learned last night that many ROTC units have quit shooting .22 after a tragedy at a range. They have switched to non lethal weapons. I've been meaning to google that.

[Iwritecode]

I realize there is not much of a connection but if my ideal society were to exist the hunters who use guns would have to take on another hobby. I threw fishing out there but I guess you can still hunt with a bow and possibly some other weapons. I'm not a hunter so I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about.

 

There are hunters out there that don't hunt for sport. They hunt to feed their family.

[Balance]

There are hunters out there that don't hunt for sport. They hunt to feed their family.

How common is this?

[BigSqwert]

How common is this?

I would guess it's less than 5% of the population.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Apr 18, 2007 -> 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And why doesn't anyone talk about alcohol?? We know, for a fact, that hundreds and hundreds will die every year, solely because of alochol. Yet we don't have this crazy uproar about how we need to ban alcohol.

,

I'm betting the number of handguns fired off each year/number of people killed each year by guns <<<<<<<

Edited April 18, 2007 by santo=dorf

[Balta1701]

Ok, now this is just getting excessive.

A Virginia court found that Virginia Tech killer Seung-Hui Cho was "mentally ill" and potentially dangerous. Then the state let him go.

 

In 2005, after a district court in Montgomery County, Va., ruled that Cho was either a danger to himself or to others — the necessary criteria for a detention order — he was evaluated by a state doctor and ordered to undergo outpatient care.

Forget the concealed weapons debate for a moment here. Can someone please explain to me exactly why a person who is found mentally ill and potentially dangerous by a court of law, has been committed temporarily to a mental institution by his parents, and is if nothing else a potential suicide threat should be allowed to walk into a store anywhere and buy a couple of guns and a mountain of ammunition?

[StrangeSox]

Ok, now this is just getting excessive.

Forget the concealed weapons debate for a moment here. Can someone please explain to me exactly why a person who is found mentally ill and potentially dangerous by a court of law, has been committed temporarily to a mental institution by his parents, and is if nothing else a potential suicide threat should be allowed to walk into a store anywhere and buy a couple of guns and a mountain of ammunition?

He shouldn't. I don't think he would have been able to in Illinois if the proper paperwork were filed.

[Texsox]

There are hunters out there that don't hunt for sport. They hunt to feed their family.

 

Depends on how you are defining feed their family. I'd say close to 95% are hunting for the table, if not more. There are some who want the trophy for their wall, or who donate/give away the harvest, but most will process/have processed the meat for their consumption. Hunting, unlike fishing, isn't "catch and release".

 

With the exception of Soxy that I know of, the rest of us enjoy animal flesh and muscle. Harvesting your own meat is a great experience and connects you with nature and its' bounty. Or, I've known a couple, it will turn you into a vegetable hater and you will only feast on the raw or cooked veggies that nature also provides.

 

And while a lot of hunters also fish, there are waaay more fisherman than hunters around. It's just so expensive to hunt and good land can be tough to find.

 

 

Ok, now this is just getting excessive.

Forget the concealed weapons debate for a moment here. Can someone please explain to me exactly why a person who is found mentally ill and potentially dangerous by a court of law, has been committed temporarily to a mental institution by his parents, and is if nothing else a potential suicide threat should be allowed to walk into a store anywhere and buy a couple of guns and a mountain of ammunition?

 

A criminal background check would not have turned up anything that would negate his right to bear arms. His medical history would have possibly been confidential, and unless Illinois changed since I lived there, that reporting is voluntary by the applicant.

FOID Application Here

 

As I suspected, self report any mental problems. Is there a clearing house for that information? All he has to do is lie. And remember only criminals would do that.

[StrangeSox]

A criminal background check would not have turned up anything that would negate his right to bear arms. His medical history would have possibly been confidential, and unless Illinois changed since I lived there, that reporting is voluntary by the applicant.

 

Paperwork isn't automatically filed to the state? Seems like that should probably change.

[Iwritecode]

I would guess it's less than 5% of the population.

 

That's about 15 million people. That's a lot of families depending on the ability to own guns to eat.

 

I just wanted to show you that there are more people than just police and military that should be allowed to own guns.

[NorthSideSox72]

Depends on how you are defining feed their family. I'd say close to 95% are hunting for the table, if not more. There are some who want the trophy for their wall, or who donate/give away the harvest, but most will process/have processed the meat for their consumption. Hunting, unlike fishing, isn't "catch and release".

 

With the exception of Soxy that I know of, the rest of us enjoy animal flesh and muscle. Harvesting your own meat is a great experience and connects you with nature and its' bounty. Or, I've known a couple, it will turn you into a vegetable hater and you will only feast on the raw or cooked veggies that nature also provides.

 

And while a lot of hunters also fish, there are waaay more fisherman than hunters around. It's just so expensive to hunt and good land can be tough to find.

A criminal background check would not have turned up anything that would negate his right to bear arms. His medical history would have possibly been confidential, and unless Illinois changed since I lived there, that reporting is voluntary by the applicant.

FOID Application Here

 

As I suspected, self report any mental problems. Is there a clearing house for that information? All he has to do is lie. And remember only criminals would do that.

 

Perhaps we need to amend the process of background checks preventing firearm purchases to include certain types of mental illness records.

 

 

 

I would guess it's less than 5% of the population.

I don't know the stats, but I'm gonna the great majority of hunters do in fact eat what they kill. I don't know a single hunter who doesn't make sure that he/she or someone else uses most or all of the animal, including eating what can be eaten.

[EvilMonkey]

Perhaps we need to amend the process of background checks preventing firearm purchases to include certain types of mental illness records.

I don't know the stats, but I'm gonna the great majority of hunters do in fact eat what they kill. I don't know a single hunter who doesn't make sure that he/she or someone else uses most or all of the animal, including eating what can be eaten.

I hunt, and eat what I kill. I am a pretty damn good shot at hitting rabbits in full stride.

[BigSqwert]

I don't know the stats, but I'm gonna the great majority of hunters do in fact eat what they kill. I don't know a single hunter who doesn't make sure that he/she or someone else uses most or all of the animal, including eating what can be eaten.

I am sure that is true but I was responding to the notion that there are certain hunters that need to hunt otherwise they and their family will die. I find it hard to believe that a large number of people in our country are in that situation. But who knows...maybe I'm wrong.

Edited April 19, 2007 by BigSqwert

[Texsox]

I am sure that is true but I was responding to the notion that there are certain hunters that need to hunt otherwise they and their family will die. I find it hard to believe that a large number of people in our country are in that situation. But who knows...maybe I'm wrong.

 

No, you are right which brings up an interesting question. I once knew a guy who was out of work and refused any sort of public assistance for himself. He allowed his wife and kid some help, but he was going to provide for himself and supplement the family freezer.

 

Long story short, he's in front of a judge for exceeding the legal limit for small mouth bass, his defense to the Judge was God put thme there for his people to eat, and he was out of work and trying not to starve. He still was fined, etc., But it made a strong point to me.

 

Are y'all suggesting a new government agency to track mental health records? How about someone who visits a private Doctor and is never hospitalized? Which government agency would you have tracking that information? Would that not stop some people from getting help? s***ty situation, I agree. But if we create some new tracking system, and it chases people away who need help, we may be creating a worse situation.

[NorthSideSox72]

I am sure that is true but I was responding to the notion that there are certain hunters that need to hunt otherwise they and their family will die. I find it hard to believe that a large number of people in our country are in that situation. But who knows...maybe I'm wrong.

If you are not a vegetarian, then you too eat food that was killed for you. And animals processed commercially for food may be even less well-used than those animals killed by hunters. So please explain how processed animal kills are OK but hunting is not.

[BigSqwert]

If you are not a vegetarian, then you too eat food that was killed for you. And animals processed commercially for food may be even less well-used than those animals killed by hunters. So please explain how processed animal kills are OK but hunting is not.

I can't since I'm vegan.

[StrangeSox]

From another forum:

 

"The mentality I have seen most Law enforcement personnel display does not give me any confidence in their abilities. In addition, most law enforcement training is rather lacking. A firearms training facility in Nevada is running a 26 episode challenge between "trained" law enforcement personnel and "plain aficionados" that have gone through their training. The "plain aficionados" have won in the neighborhood of 80% of the competitions. Check out www.frontsight.com to learn about the facility."

 

Would people be more comfortable if getting a concealed carry permit required training at a facility such as this?

 

 

Here's another story:

"Keep in mind another data-point. In Israel, everyone can carry a concealed weapon. Recently, when an Arab terrorist attempted to hijack a bus about 4-6 people wound up pointing guns at him. Off to jail he went. Later, he reportedly commented that he was never told by his 'trainers' that Israeli citizens are armed to the hilt."

 

No Rambos. No cross-fire fatalities. Just a potentially lethal situation adverted by armed citizens who refused to just be victims.

Edited April 19, 2007 by StrangeSox

[Jenksismyhero]

I can't since I'm vegan.

 

There's a shocker

[Texsox]

There's a shocker

 

I love animals*

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*they're delicious

I kid because I care ™ : but they are delicious. Roasted, fried, baked,

[whitesoxfan101]

There are a lot of reasons for gun control debate, however as long as their are whack jobs in this country, there are going to be some horrific crimes every once in a while. Sad but true.

[Iwritecode]

From another forum:

 

"The mentality I have seen most Law enforcement personnel display does not give me any confidence in their abilities. In addition, most law enforcement training is rather lacking. A firearms training facility in Nevada is running a 26 episode challenge between "trained" law enforcement personnel and "plain aficionados" that have gone through their training. The "plain aficionados" have won in the neighborhood of 80% of the competitions. Check out www.frontsight.com to learn about the facility."

 

Would people be more comfortable if getting a concealed carry permit required training at a facility such as this?

Here's another story:

"Keep in mind another data-point. In Israel, everyone can carry a concealed weapon. Recently, when an Arab terrorist attempted to hijack a bus about 4-6 people wound up pointing guns at him. Off to jail he went. Later, he reportedly commented that he was never told by his 'trainers' that Israeli citizens are armed to the hilt."

 

No Rambos. No cross-fire fatalities. Just a potentially lethal situation adverted by armed citizens who refused to just be victims.

 

That brings up an interesting quetion. If we had the same laws here, would this guy have even attempted this stunt in the first place?