Floyd's arm beginning to convert some believers

[Yossarian]

I put Floyd and Danks in the same category. I am not exactly sold on Danks or Floyd neither has electric stuff but if they throw strikes and learn how to work hitters they could be 3/4 guys.

 

The begining of their careers mirror that of Jon Garland who is a 3/4 guy.

 

I find it amazing how people will give up so easily on 24 year pitchers. I could see if there were health issues but he appears to be a guy that can give you innings.

It's not necessarily giving up, just understandable skepticism. Most "prospects" be they pitchers or position players don't pan out. Baseball is a very hard and unforgiving game. Danks and especially Floyd have had extended periods of shall we say "underperforming". Pitching is at a premium in this steroid "chicks dig the long ball" era of baseball.

[RockRaines]

I put Floyd and Danks in the same category. I am not exactly sold on Danks or Floyd neither has electric stuff but if they throw strikes and learn how to work hitters they could be 3/4 guys.

 

The begining of their careers mirror that of Jon Garland who is a 3/4 guy.

 

I find it amazing how people will give up so easily on 24 year pitchers. I could see if there were health issues but he appears to be a guy that can give you innings.

Whoa. I wouldnt compare those two in the same sentence like that. Danks is up in the majors a year early. He is so good we HAD to put him in the rotation. He will prove better than a 3/4.

[Rowand44]

Whoa. I wouldnt compare those two in the same sentence like that. Danks is up in the majors a year early. He is so good we HAD to put him in the rotation. He will prove better than a 3/4.

They both have a lot of proving to do. I think at best Danks will be a 3 starter, jmo.

[RockRaines]

They both have a lot of proving to do. I think at best Danks will be a 3 starter, jmo.

Could be. But I would hold off on judging him by his performance this season. He was up a year early, performed quite well and has shown in his career that it takes him a season to figure out the level he is at.

[Dick Allen]

Yet he continues to give him starts. curious

And Andy Gonzalez continues to play 3rd base, and Mike Myers continues to get called in from the bullpen and.............................

[Rowand44]

Could be. But I would hold off on judging him by his performance this season. He was up a year early, performed quite well and has shown in his career that it takes him a season to figure out the level he is at.

I'm basing it on his stuff more than this season. I'm very satisfied with this type of season from a 22 year old rookie.

[NorthSideSox72]

And Andy Gonzalez continues to play 3rd base, and Mike Myers continues to get called in from the bullpen and.............................

I almost kind of hope they keep running them both out there now, because I wouldn't want to see either of them on the 2008 roster and the more they play, the more they make Ozzie and KW aware of their failings.

 

Still though, more ideally, they just give up on Gonzalez and Cintron now and bring up Bourgeois.

 

[Dick Allen]

You keep saying September starts like because it's September that they don't mean anything. That's just wrong. Great, so a 21, 22 and 23 year old pitcher struggled, I know it's impossible at the ripe old age of 24 to improve, but hey look...Gavin is improving. You pull out some odd comparisons at times, a 24 year old pitcher who is clearly getting better to a pitcher who is about 84 and clearly getting worse, no comparison there at all.

Ask KW about evaluating September performances for young guys. I'm glad Floyd is improving, but really how could he not have improved? If he has a 3.00 ERA this month does it mean he will continue to get better? Look at his 2004 numbers. They were pretty good, why was he not able to continue to improve then. He's a tease, and always will be. Contreras at least has shown he can get the job done in meaningful games.

[southsideirish71]

Ask KW about evaluating September performances for young guys. I'm glad Floyd is improving, but really how could he not have improved? If he has a 3.00 ERA this month does it mean he will continue to get better? Look at his 2004 numbers. They were pretty good, why was he not able to continue to improve then. He's a tease, and always will be. Contreras at least has shown he can get the job done in meaningful games.

 

There is a slight difference between evaluating Floyd when he faces the Royals in September. When facing the Indians in September when they are still trying to lock up a playoff spot is another thing.

 

 

[Rowand44]

Ask KW about evaluating September performances for young guys. I'm glad Floyd is improving, but really how could he not have improved? If he has a 3.00 ERA this month does it mean he will continue to get better? Look at his 2004 numbers. They were pretty good, why was he not able to continue to improve then. He's a tease, and always will be. Contreras at least has shown he can get the job done in meaningful games.

He faced two teams trying to get to the playoffs, he didn't face two teams who have shut it down already. HUGE difference.

[Dick Allen]

He faced two teams trying to get to the playoffs, he didn't face two teams who have shut it down already. HUGE difference.

He faced the Tigers struggling, without Sheffield, no Ordonez, really Hawk was laughing at their line-up. Cleveland is cruising and it was a rainy night. What about the starts when he was crushed? There really is no race in the AL Central. Its funny, the Sox have all the guys people seem to be foaming over in the line-up. Richar, Fields now Floyd and the Sox continue to lose. I think there are a lot of masochists on this board. BTW, the Indians didn't even get into Chicago yesterday until 4:30 AM. It probably was a good time to face them.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Dick Allen

[hitlesswonder]

He faced the Tigers struggling, without Sheffield, no Ordonez, really Hawk was laughing at their line-up. Cleveland is cruising and it was a rainy night. What about the starts when he was crushed? There really is no race in the AL Central.

 

I agree. Do people not watch the games? Even against a lousy DET lineup, Floyd would have been crushed if that park didn't turn HRs into outs. What do you want to believe, Floyd's entire career up till now, or 3 starts in September? He's not good. And neither are any of the other young players on the Sox (Richar, Fields, Danks, go on down the line). Danks is young enough that he could still turn into a league average pitcher at some point for a few seasons. But realistically, no team in baseball has as bleak a future as the Sox. I wish it weren't true, but watch the games -- I don't see anyone that looks like a future all-star.

[Gregory Pratt]

Because we all know Ozzie has a problem saying what he means... Good lord that it some creative reading. If Ozzie doesn't like a guy, he won't hestitate to throw him under the bus, get into the bus, start the bus up, and procede to drive over the player about 50 times.

 

Took him quite awhile to outright throw Anderson under the bus. And he still says nice things about him sometimes.

 

Why would Ozzie throw Gavin Floyd under the bus? Floyd's a nice guy. Floyd tries hard. Ozzie never throws guys under the bus because they're lousy or he thinks they're lousy.

 

If he really believed in Floyd, he'd say much nicer things, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's heard (in the paper and through convos.) that Ozzie really doesn't like Floyd as a pitcher and he's KW's boy, that's it.

[Gregory Pratt]

I agree. Do people not watch the games? Even against a lousy DET lineup, Floyd would have been crushed if that park didn't turn HRs into outs. What do you want to believe, Floyd's entire career up till now, or 3 starts in September? He's not good. And neither are any of the other young players on the Sox (Richar, Fields, Danks, go on down the line). Danks is young enough that he could still turn into a league average pitcher at some point for a few seasons. But realistically, no team in baseball has as bleak a future as the Sox. I wish it weren't true, but watch the games -- I don't see anyone that looks like a future all-star.

 

How dare you suggest such a thing! He's just got good 410 foot warning track pitches.

[Gregory Pratt]

We all have seen some new things this season, but I have to just shake my head reading "Sox fans" come up with excuses for White Sox players success. "Well, you can't really give credit to Floyd in his start at Detroit, and it's such a big park," or "Well, it was raining pretty good, which can make it hard for Indian hitters"

 

I know a lot of you have your internet ego's to keep up with, but GMAB. It's one thing to root for a high pick, that helps with the future. But to look for actual reasons to discount young players success is a different story.

 

"Internet Egos" = KW's "Can't possibly admit Gavin's not a Top Prospect" ego.

 

And you're just as guilty as I. You called Jerry Owens' recent success the worst thing that could happen to this team.

 

s***, man. Jerry's just turning it around and showing us what he's REALLY capable of. Why would you put him down like that, yo? What's up with that?

[CWSGuy406]

Cleveland is cruising and it was a rainy night.

 

I love how this has been thrown in the faces of the people who have supported giving Floyd some starts. Because it's the pitcher's advantage that it's raining -- afterall, everyone knows it's easy to throw the ball when the leather is constantly wet. Very, very easy, in fact -- advantage to nth degree for Floyd.

 

I'd say last night was his most encouraging start but he's still got a ways to go. If he could give the Sox a 5.00 ERA in 2008 -- which I'm not quite confident yet he could do -- the Sox should take that running to the bank.

 

That being said, I am a little dissappointed that his fastball hasn't really been as advertised. They told us he was sitting in the mid-90s, and I can only recall a start or two where he was "sitting" at 92-94. Mainly he's been low 90s which would be okay if he had great control, but he doesn't.

[Dick Allen]

We all have seen some new things this season, but I have to just shake my head reading "Sox fans" come up with excuses for White Sox players success. "Well, you can't really give credit to Floyd in his start at Detroit, and it's such a big park," or "Well, it was raining pretty good, which can make it hard for Indian hitters"

 

I know a lot of you have your internet ego's to keep up with, but GMAB. It's one thing to root for a high pick, that helps with the future. But to look for actual reasons to discount young players success is a different story.

Well then, why isn't there thread after thread about how Fields is going backwards offensively lately or the same with Richar? Should we ignore what they did earlier and just go by the past week or so? Why isn't there anybody backing off the Contreras is 94 years old and a bum when his last 5 starts he's 2-2 with a 4.50 ERA. Lower than Vazquez in 2006 when the going rate for that we were told on this board was 11 million to 12 million a year. Contreras could be a bargain at 10 mill. The bottom line is Floyd pitched a couple of decent games, but having that trump the awful outings or the rest of his career isn't wise IMO. Sorry you disagree. If you think Danks, Floyd and a rookie filling the last 3 spots in the White Sox rotation in 2008 is a good way to win in 2008, more power to you. I think it means battling with KC again.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

"Internet Egos" = KW's "Can't possibly admit Gavin's not a Top Prospect" ego.

 

And you're just as guilty as I. You called Jerry Owens' recent success the worst thing that could happen to this team.

 

s***, man. Jerry's just turning it around and showing us what he's REALLY capable of. Why would you put him down like that, yo? What's up with that?

 

One of them has the job to back it up though

[RockRaines]

I love how this has been thrown in the faces of the people who have supported giving Floyd some starts. Because it's the pitcher's advantage that it's raining -- afterall, everyone knows it's easy to throw the ball when the leather is constantly wet. Very, very easy, in fact -- advantage to nth degree for Floyd.

 

I'd say last night was his most encouraging start but he's still got a ways to go. If he could give the Sox a 5.00 ERA in 2008 -- which I'm not quite confident yet he could do -- the Sox should take that running to the bank.

 

That being said, I am a little dissappointed that his fastball hasn't really been as advertised. They told us he was sitting in the mid-90s, and I can only recall a start or two where he was "sitting" at 92-94. Mainly he's been low 90s which would be okay if he had great control, but he doesn't.

He has lost a touch of velocity, but still rings it up into the 90's. The reason he has done this is that Coop shortened his stride and delivery to achieve greater control. Check out his motion now vs when he first pitched for us. He is keep his head steady and taking an easier stride. It appears to be working.

[Rowand44]

Tony's spot on, I'll leave it at that.

[Dick Allen]

I changed my mind. Floyd is great, as are Fields, Richar, Gonzalez, and Owens. I will disregard the 7-21 record the last 28 games. The Sox have the best owner, GM , manager and players in the game. It was just a fluke this year it didn't work out. Its worked out so often in the past. At least once since 1917. Its funny guys talk about others egos when stating opinions that differ from theirs. Maybe they are looking in the wrong direction for inflated egos.

[southsider2k5]

Well then, why isn't there thread after thread about how Fields is going backwards offensively lately or the same with Richar? Should we ignore what they did earlier and just go by the past week or so? Why isn't there anybody backing off the Contreras is 94 years old and a bum when his last 5 starts he's 2-2 with a 4.50 ERA. Lower than Vazquez in 2006 when the going rate for that we were told on this board was 11 million to 12 million a year. Contreras could be a bargain at 10 mill. The bottom line is Floyd pitched a couple of decent games, but having that trump the awful outings or the rest of his career isn't wise IMO. Sorry you disagree. If you think Danks, Floyd and a rookie filling the last 3 spots in the White Sox rotation in 2008 is a good way to win in 2008, more power to you. I think it means battling with KC again.

 

Baseball is a game that is supposed to be enjoyed. Sorry if their isn't equal time given to every negative thing that happens, or could be happening to the White Sox, but I am guessing the reason is simply that for something that is supposed to be entertainment, most people who rather focus on the postive versus obsessing about the negative. If you want to strain to see the negative in everything, have at it. Most people watch baseball because it brings them happiness. Because of that you are going to see a focus on the good things. For most people if they didn't enjoy it, they wouldn't waste their time on it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[Dick Allen]

Baseball is a game that is supposed to be enjoyed. Sorry if their isn't equal time given to every negative thing that happens, or could be happening to the White Sox, but I am guessing the reason is simply that for something that is supposed to be entertainment, most people who rather focus on the postive versus obsessing about the negative. If you want to strain to see the negative in everything, have at it. Most people watch baseball because it brings them happiness. Because of that you are going to see a focus on the good things. For most people if they didn't enjoy it, they wouldn't waste their time on it. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Then nobody with this "attitude" should ever rip on Cubs fans. They should be admired for being positive about all the negative. I agree, baseball should be enjoyed, and having Gavin as part of your rotation in 2008 will make it not enjoyable.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

I changed my mind. Floyd is great, as are Fields, Richar, Gonzalez, and Owens. I will disregard the 7-21 record the last 28 games. The Sox have the best owner, GM , manager and players in the game. It was just a fluke this year it didn't work out. Its worked out so often in the past. At least once since 1917. Its funny guys talk about others egos when stating opinions that differ from theirs. Maybe they are looking in the wrong direction for inflated egos.

 

Yep, that's exactly what we've said all along. Floyd is great, and with Fields, Richar, Gonzalez, and Owens, the Sox will be back on top in no time. :rolly

 

Get real.

[NorthSideSox72]

I changed my mind. Floyd is great, as are Fields, Richar, Gonzalez, and Owens. I will disregard the 7-21 record the last 28 games. The Sox have the best owner, GM , manager and players in the game. It was just a fluke this year it didn't work out. Its worked out so often in the past. At least once since 1917. Its funny guys talk about others egos when stating opinions that differ from theirs. Maybe they are looking in the wrong direction for inflated egos.

Ah yes, the time honored response - go to the other extreme where no one actually resides in this discussion.