gosox41 Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 We're all aware of what KW did to bring a WS Championship to Chicago and I'll always appreciat him for that. And as I've said before, I think this team is in for more pain next year unless the Sox jack up their payroll to cover their holes. That being said, KW has made the decision this year to keep the same core and to go for it next year. He could have easily decided to rebuild and have a couple of years to get this team in contention. It's not a bad PR decision, but if KW can't work his magic, it's going to be a disaster that will screw this club up for more then a year or 2. If the Sox maintain their current payroll (or better) and don't legitimately contend for a playoff spot next year, then KW should be axed. I'm not even demanding a playoff appearnce before I axe him, just a legitimate shot at contending. There's no excuse for a team with this high of a payroll to be floundering in last place in the AL Central. Bad breaks or not for 2007, KW is taking a huge risk next year. He knows the variables-that Thome, Dye, and Crede are injury risks. That the no trade clauses in MB, JD, and Thome's contract hurt the Sox chances of rebuilding faster. Just like KW should have known to put Floyd in the rotation back at the beginning of August to see what he's made of instead of waiting until September. KW has a tough job, but he put himself in this position. IMHO, he gets one more year. If this team can't legitimately contend (say within 4 games of a playoff spot come Sept. 1) then boot him. Because if one finishes last or even below .500 2 years in a row in the AL Central with a $100 million payroll, then one has to question why he has this job. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 It's funny because it seems JR is giving him until 2012. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29andPoplar Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 KW has made the decision this year to keep the same core and to go for it next year. This statement is poetic lisence. What he's said is, there are too many championship pieces here to rebuild at this time. That does NOT mean he is keeping the same core. Semantics perhaps but the reality is they have targeted guys on other teams, and will figure out in October in Arizona which of the current White Sox players will be part of things in 2008. That means lots of things, it means they have to figure out which Sox players other teams want and what they'll give up. And it all depends how you define core. I would bet more than one core player will move on. If your point is solely that you personally give him through 2008 to field a competitive team or else you want him fired, well your opinion is noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 (edited) It's funny because it seems JR is giving him until 2012. My first thoughts too. Where's the smiling soldier holding up a coffee mug? Edited September 13, 2007 by santo=dorf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(gosox41 @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 09:13 PM) We're all aware of what KW did to bring a WS Championship to Chicago and I'll always appreciat him for that. And as I've said before, I think this team is in for more pain next year unless the Sox jack up their payroll to cover their holes. That being said, KW has made the decision this year to keep the same core and to go for it next year. He could have easily decided to rebuild and have a couple of years to get this team in contention. It's not a bad PR decision, but if KW can't work his magic, it's going to be a disaster that will screw this club up for more then a year or 2. If the Sox maintain their current payroll (or better) and don't legitimately contend for a playoff spot next year, then KW should be axed. I'm not even demanding a playoff appearnce before I axe him, just a legitimate shot at contending. There's no excuse for a team with this high of a payroll to be floundering in last place in the AL Central. Bad breaks or not for 2007, KW is taking a huge risk next year. He knows the variables-that Thome, Dye, and Crede are injury risks. That the no trade clauses in MB, JD, and Thome's contract hurt the Sox chances of rebuilding faster. Just like KW should have known to put Floyd in the rotation back at the beginning of August to see what he's made of instead of waiting until September. KW has a tough job, but he put himself in this position. IMHO, he gets one more year. If this team can't legitimately contend (say within 4 games of a playoff spot come Sept. 1) then boot him. Because if one finishes last or even below .500 2 years in a row in the AL Central with a $100 million payroll, then one has to question why he has this job. Bob Yeah, that's fine but you aren't the owner. I'd have fired him already. I probably wouldn't have ever hired him, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 10:34 PM) Yeah, that's fine but you aren't the owner. I'd have fired him already. I probably wouldn't have ever hired him, though. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I don't have a list of guys who were available when he was promoted to GM but I'm sure there are a ton of good guys from other organizations with good track records who were available. I'd probably look for someone from outside the organization and with some good, concrete experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 13, 2007 -> 03:16 AM) I don't have a list of guys who were available when he was promoted to GM but I'm sure there are a ton of good guys from other organizations with good track records who were available. I'd probably look for someone from outside the organization and with some good, concrete experience. How's that any different than how Ozzie was hired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 09:16 PM) It's funny because it seems JR is giving him until 2012. True.dat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 10:21 PM) How's that any different than how Ozzie was hired? I might not have hired Ozzie. I'm sure I'd have called him in for an interview and I'm sure I'd have liked him but would I have hired him? Maybe, maybe not. Depends how much he impressed me and depends on what answers he gave to the Qs that I'd ask him about in-game situations and strategies and the history of the game and all the things I'd ask and I imagine most people ask of prospective managers. I do know that there's no chance in hell I'd have hired Kenny in the first place. While I don't have a list of who was available and what under-studies there were where in GM offices everywhere, I'm sure I'd have found someone much better than KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 11:16 PM) I don't have a list of guys who were available when he was promoted to GM but I'm sure there are a ton of good guys from other organizations with good track records who were available. I'd probably look for someone from outside the organization and with some good, concrete experience. What is your criticism of KW's qualifications? Would you only consider someone who's been a gm before? Or only someone outside the organization? Or are you just saying you'd offer Schuerholz 3/4 of your net worth for one year's work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Ideally he'd be a former GM, yes. And no, I wouldn't ask Schuerholz to take the job as I'm sure he wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 11:24 PM) I might not have hired Ozzie. I'm sure I'd have called him in for an interview and I'm sure I'd have liked him but would I have hired him? Maybe, maybe not. Depends how much he impressed me and depends on what answers he gave to the Qs that I'd ask him about in-game situations and strategies and the history of the game and all the things I'd ask and I imagine most people ask of prospective managers. I do know that there's no chance in hell I'd have hired Kenny in the first place. While I don't have a list of who was available and what under-studies there were where in GM offices everywhere, I'm sure I'd have found someone much better than KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 I don't think that's such a laughable statement. I take the position that twelve GMs are better than KW, so being sure I'd find someone who is better isn't that big a stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 11:32 PM) Ideally he'd be a former GM, yes. And no, I wouldn't ask Schuerholz to take the job as I'm sure he wouldn't. I didn't ask about your "ideal" candidate. I know you take pride in irrationally loving Ozzie and irrationally hating Williams, but the cuteness does eventually fade. Like when you say, I know absolutely nothing about nothing in terms of personnel men, but I would have done better! I dunno -- maybe I'm supposed to laugh at that, but I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 (edited) Yeah, but I'm done with this thread. All I said was, "I probably wouldn't hire him." I shouldn't have even started with the mental masturbation that is, "Well, what would you have done? Who would you have hired? Why would you have hired them? Would you ask Schuerholz to take the job? You really think you could find a better GM than KW?" Hell, I think a much better GM got fired in LA very recently. So, to summarize thread: Greg Pratt wouldn't have hired KW Jerry Reinsdorf did Thread Poster wants to give KW one more year Reinsdorf is giving him forever /thread Edited September 13, 2007 by Gregory Pratt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) I didn't ask about your "ideal" candidate. I know you take pride in irrationally loving Ozzie and irrationally hating Williams, but the cuteness does eventually fade. Like when you say, I know absolutely nothing about nothing in terms of personnel men, but I would have done better! I dunno -- maybe I'm supposed to laugh at that, but I don't. I think DePodesta, young though he was at the time, would've been a better choice. I'm sure there are plenty of others. KW isn't a good GM and he didn't come into the job with credentials that light up the world. And I never said the bulls*** you're attributing to me. I'm just saying, I don't have a list here and now of people who I think would've been better choices to be hired. Sheesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 10:40 PM) I think DePodesta, young though he was at the time, would've been a better choice. I'm sure there are plenty of others. KW isn't a good GM and he didn't come into the job with credentials that light up the world. And I never said the bulls*** you're attributing to me. I'm just saying, I don't have a list here and now of people who I think would've been better choices to be hired. Sheesh. C'mon greg. We know one of the two books you've read is Moneyball. Podesta was a nobody until that book came out, years after KW was hired. /Sidenote: My favorite Pratt Posts are the ones after he's "done" with a thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 10:43 PM) C'mon greg. We know one of the two books you've read is Moneyball. Podesta was a nobody until that book came out, years after KW was hired. /Sidenote: My favorite Pratt Posts are the ones after he's "done" with a thread. I'm sure I read at a rate as good as what you read and that encompasses more than just sports books, though I don't know what you read. I'm not sure what you're trying to say -- that I've only read two books in my life? Oh, I'm sorry, I'll inject Ezra Pound or Cara Nelson for you next time there's a disagreement here and there's some sort of point to make. Really, is that necessary? Or relevant? No, but it's cute, right? You're cute when you're insulting someone for no reason. And yes, it's true that Paul wasn't popularly known that doesn't mean he wasn't respected around the game. He was big in Cleveland around that time, so while I didn't know who he was at the time, and you probably didn't either, I'm sure plenty of people around the game knew who he was. /edit: I'd hire Cheat to be the GM, by the way. That's who I'd hire. Edited September 13, 2007 by Gregory Pratt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 The Schuerholz thing is just going along with the running joke. Don't take it so seriously. But the rest -- please, you don't know any of these people, don't know anything they've done, don't know anything being said about any of them. It's just weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 10:51 PM) The Schuerholz thing is just going along with the running joke. Don't take it so seriously. But the rest -- please, you don't know any of these people, don't know anything they've done, don't know anything being said about any of them. It's just weak. Well, no, and neither do you and neither does anyone here. I just said, "I don't think I'd have hired KW" and everybody's on my ass about it? Give me a f***ing break. You wouldn't have hired Ozzie, right? Not a fan, it seems, from your comments. So give me a list of who you would've hired. Did they have to have prior management? Oh, you don't know what you're talking about, shut up, that's weak. I mean, man, I didn't know people aren't allowed to express an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) /edit: I'd hire Cheat to be the GM, by the way. That's who I'd hire. The '05 team wouldn't have included Iguchi, El Duque, or Podsednik. But it would have had Polanco, Odalis Perez, and would have likely removed Konerko instead of Lee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 11:54 PM) Well, no, and neither do you and neither does anyone here. I just said, "I don't think I'd have hired KW" and everybody's on my ass about it? Give me a f***ing break. You wouldn't have hired Ozzie, right? Not a fan, it seems, from your comments. So give me a list of who you would've hired. Did they have to have prior management? Oh, you don't know what you're talking about, shut up, that's weak. I mean, man, I didn't know people aren't allowed to express an opinion. If I have EVER said I wouldn't have hired Ozzie, give me a link, else stfu and stop putting words in my mouth. I LIKED the Ozzie hire quite a bit at first. My initial opinion was that Gaston was sort of dull, a manager doesn't matter much, anyway, and it'll be better to have a bit of a spark. Not a big advantage, but okay, better. Not that I'm saying I would have hired him. I admit that I have no f***ing clue. You can express an opinion, sure, but you stated a fact. Not, I wish this wouldn't have been done, but, I would not have done this. Since you don't know ANYTHING about the people involved -- how do you know people weren't praising Williams or didn't know him? -- it comes off as, It was so obvious that Williams was the wrong choice that even I know that he shouldn't have got the job, and I don't even know the other names who would have been considered. It strikes me as a pretty smarmy remark, so I just asked you to back it up. I don't think that's such a big demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Sep 13, 2007 -> 04:07 AM) If I have EVER said I wouldn't have hired Ozzie, give me a link, else stfu and stop putting words in my mouth. I LIKED the Ozzie hire quite a bit at first. My initial opinion was that Gaston was sort of dull, a manager doesn't matter much, anyway, and it'll be better to have a bit of a spark. Not a big advantage, but okay, better. Not that I'm saying I would have hired him. I admit that I have no f***ing clue. You can express an opinion, sure, but you stated a fact. Not, I wish this wouldn't have been done, but, I would not have done this. Since you don't know ANYTHING about the people involved -- how do you know people weren't praising Williams or didn't know him? -- it comes off as, It was so obvious that Williams was the wrong choice that even I know that he shouldn't have got the job, and I don't even know the other names who would have been considered. It strikes me as a pretty smarmy remark, so I just asked you to back it up. I don't think that's such a big demand. I actually loved the Ozzie hire, as well. I was so mesmerized by the press conference in which he was introduced as manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 09:16 PM) It's funny because it seems JR is giving him until 2012. You are correct sir! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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