Reddy Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Linky Chicago White Sox Where: Tucson, Arizona (Cactus League) 2007 record: 72-90 (4th, AL Central) New guys: Orlando Cabrera, Octavio Dotel, Scott Linebrink, Carlos Quentin, Alexei Ramirez, Nick Swisher Gone guys: David Aardsma, Ryan Bukvich, Alex Cintron, Darin Erstad, Jon Garland, Scott Podsednik, Luis Terrero Wow, he’s still here? Josh Fields’ moderately impressive rookie season, coupled with his inability to play left field, was supposed to mean the departure of Joe Crede. Teams have not been willing to deal for Crede without seeing him play, however. Winter grade: B+ If you knew nothing else but the lists of players coming and going, you’d have to conclude it was a good winter on the South Side. The Sox upgraded a terrible bullpen and outfield, and got better at shortstop while dealing just one player, in Garland, who meant anything to them. NRI to watch: A weak list is headed by former Blue Jays’ first-round pick Miguel Negron, who has washed out of four organizations in the last three years. With last year’s collection of lousy fourth outfielders mostly gone, there’s an opening for a speedy glove man to make the team. Job battle to track: Jerry Owens vs. Carlos Quentin, with Nick Swisher playing left or center depending on who wins. Quentin is the favorite, and could be the steal of the offseason for Kenny Williams. However, if Quentin’s surgically-repaired shoulder doesn’t allow him to hit, Owens’ speed in center is going to be attractive to manager Ozzie Guillen. Owens’ overall numbers were lousy, but he played better in the second half, well enough to make him a viable option. One move to make: This improved roster remains one top-tier starting pitcher shy of hanging with the top two teams in the division. They likely don’t have the prospects left to trade for that guy, but it’s the one move they could make that would change the discussion. The Garland-for-Cabrera trade was the signature move in an offseason that saw the Sox dump a whole bunch of the dead weight from the ’07 team. That deal helps them a lot; you don’t often get to upgrade by 50 points of OBP in the infield, and Cabrera is also a good defensive shortstop. There’s a lot of variance here; guys like Quentin, Cuban signee Ramirez, and Jose Contreras could be six-win players, or they could bounce around replacement level. The Sox have correctly played for the present, and no matter what happens, Kenny Williams can be commended for choosing the right course of action. Wow, they actually thought we did a good job. And when you put it side by side like that, what we gained vs. what we gave up, it makes it look like Kenny actually did a helluva job this offseason. But they're right about that starting pitching thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(Reddy @ Feb 6, 2008 -> 10:24 PM) Linky Wow, they actually thought we did a good job. And when you put it side by side like that, what we gained vs. what we gave up, it makes it look like Kenny actually did a helluva job this offseason. But they're right about that starting pitching thing... they are exactly right, and ive been saying for months, this offense is so much better having cut dead weight in pods erstad and uribe....not only do we upgrade 50 pts of obp in the infield but 70 points with swisher and according to PECOTA potentially 40-50 with quentin in left (not to mention they have ramirez hitting .295/.340/.450, which would be more than solid at 2b or as a CF should quentin get injured.....i really dont wanna see owens out there) combine that with the upgrades in the pen....and if we get some solid pitching from contreras, plus one of floyd or danks to take the next step and have a near 4 Era, plus the other to pitch like a 5th starter, i know thats alot of ifs, but this team could potentially win 90 games in that happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Who is confident though of having 2 out of the group of Contreras, Danks and Floyd winning more than 10-13 games and posting an ERA around the 4.50 mark? Because I think that'll be the ultimate difference maker for us this season. We know the pen should be improved and the offense will be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Feb 6, 2008 -> 10:16 PM) Who is confident though of having 2 out of the group of Contreras, Danks and Floyd winning more than 10-13 games and posting an ERA around the 4.50 mark? Because I think that'll be the ultimate difference maker for us this season. We know the pen should be improved and the offense will be better. although... look at the stats from Cleveland and Detroit's rotations last year... a decent number on both teams had ERA's around or above that 4.50 mark and they still did as well as they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Well their offenses are still probably better then ours at this stage, so they can make up for it that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Feb 6, 2008 -> 11:16 PM) Well their offenses are still probably better then ours at this stage, so they can make up for it that way. true. i'm not saying i'm blatantly optimistic about our chances this year - but i think we have a better shot than people here at soxtalk are giving us credit for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Feb 6, 2008 -> 08:16 PM) Who is confident though of having 2 out of the group of Contreras, Danks and Floyd winning more than 10-13 games and posting an ERA around the 4.50 mark? Because I think that'll be the ultimate difference maker for us this season. We know the pen should be improved and the offense will be better. If someone told me one of those guys would be a legit three, I'd say the Sox would be almost dead even with Cleveland and just a tad behind Detroit for the division. If they acquired a Bedard type pitcher without losing any key players from the current 25 man roster, I'd say they were even to potential front-runners. Bottom line, if the pitching shows up I think the Sox have a playing time. That is a big if, but it was also the big question in 2005 and low and behold the pitching showed up (in 05, we knew the club had guys that could throw innings, but a good chunk of them had been nothing but inconsistent most of there careers). Danks/Floyd have the stuff to be solid major leaguers while Contreras if he can refind his stuff (I'm hoping his back has gotten better with the Sox putting a major focus on him doing strenght training on that back) than things would be nice (plus I still am a huge fan of the two pitching prospects at the upper levels the Sox didn't trade). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 The Sox brass seem pretty high on Contreras coming into this season. He's the difference maker IMHO. From the middle of 2005 to mid 2006, he was argubly the best pitcher in baseball. If he could somehow get back to being that dominating pitcher who was so hard to hit with that dominant fastball / splitter combo, the Sox would be a much better ballclub. As for Danks / Floyd, even though I think Danks probably has the better potential of the 2, I'm more confident with Gavin coming into this season. He did impress me in those last 6 starts he had. The key for him is to keep the ball in the ballpark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 (edited) QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Feb 6, 2008 -> 11:24 PM) If someone told me one of those guys would be a legit three, I'd say the Sox would be almost dead even with Cleveland and just a tad behind Detroit for the division. If they acquired a Bedard type pitcher without losing any key players from the current 25 man roster, I'd say they were even to potential front-runners. Bottom line, if the pitching shows up I think the Sox have a playing time. That is a big if, but it was also the big question in 2005 and low and behold the pitching showed up (in 05, we knew the club had guys that could throw innings, but a good chunk of them had been nothing but inconsistent most of there careers). Danks/Floyd have the stuff to be solid major leaguers while Contreras if he can refind his stuff (I'm hoping his back has gotten better with the Sox putting a major focus on him doing strenght training on that back) than things would be nice (plus I still am a huge fan of the two pitching prospects at the upper levels the Sox didn't trade). This is pretty much exactly how I feel. I will say though that I was much more confident in the 05 club than this current team. I just didn't think there was a weakness with the 05 group, with these guys there is a glaring one imo. Still, if Danks-Floyd-JC step up, I really love this team. Edited February 7, 2008 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Obviously KW did a good job in getting players that will help us this coming season. He upgraded our bullpen, our infield and our outfield. Thats a pretty good offseason, what the article doesn't mention however is that KW stripped our minors to the bone to make these deals happen. How good will we be in 3 years when team is getting older and we have no legitimate in-house options for replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(bighurt4life @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 12:00 AM) Obviously KW did a good job in getting players that will help us this coming season. He upgraded our bullpen, our infield and our outfield. Thats a pretty good offseason, what the article doesn't mention however is that KW stripped our minors to the bone to make these deals happen. How good will we be in 3 years when team is getting older and we have no legitimate in-house options for replacement? Well then the players that are drafted within the next 3 years come into play; it's not like KW went out and added ten 35 year olds to the roster. He's put together a very good core of players that will hopefully be around for a while and will produce quite well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sircaffey Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 12:58 AM) Well then the players that are drafted within the next 3 years come into play; it's not like KW went out and added ten 35 year olds to the roster. He's put together a very good core of players that will hopefully be around for a while and will produce quite well. Which makes this year's draft extremely important for the direction this organization goes in a few seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(bighurt4life @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 12:00 AM) Obviously KW did a good job in getting players that will help us this coming season. He upgraded our bullpen, our infield and our outfield. Thats a pretty good offseason, what the article doesn't mention however is that KW stripped our minors to the bone to make these deals happen. How good will we be in 3 years when team is getting older and we have no legitimate in-house options for replacement? You could say the same thing about the Tigers and their old guys. Other than Porcello (whose a pitcher) they don't have much down there especially position spects who are the future. In three years, who knows if Miggy will still be with that organization. They too (along with Cleveland) will have to draft good. (hopefully with our change in personel, we will draft better since the other two teams do draft pretty well usually) Not assuming of course, good trades in the future who could net us (or them) part of our (or their) future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmbjeff Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 in 3 years so much of the older players with big contracts will be gone anyways....konerko,dye,thome...etc...they will ave extra money with those guys gone to make a big free agent splash in 2010,2011...not to mention the younger core of swisher,quentin,fields will all be the new "vets" and they will have 3 years until then to develop minor leaguers QUOTE(bighurt4life @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 12:00 AM) Obviously KW did a good job in getting players that will help us this coming season. He upgraded our bullpen, our infield and our outfield. Thats a pretty good offseason, what the article doesn't mention however is that KW stripped our minors to the bone to make these deals happen. How good will we be in 3 years when team is getting older and we have no legitimate in-house options for replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(Reddy @ Feb 6, 2008 -> 09:24 PM) Linky Wow, they actually thought we did a good job. And when you put it side by side like that, what we gained vs. what we gave up, it makes it look like Kenny actually did a helluva job this offseason. But they're right about that starting pitching thing... atleast they see that we actually did address some needs and got quality players. no one else is giving them credit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsgdf_2 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(bighurt4life @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 12:00 AM) Obviously KW did a good job in getting players that will help us this coming season. He upgraded our bullpen, our infield and our outfield. Thats a pretty good offseason, what the article doesn't mention however is that KW stripped our minors to the bone to make these deals happen. How good will we be in 3 years when team is getting older and we have no legitimate in-house options for replacement? Actually, he did address that here: "The Sox have correctly played for the present, and no matter what happens, Kenny Williams can be commended for choosing the right course of action." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(sircaffey @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 01:14 AM) Which makes this year's draft extremely important for the direction this organization goes in a few seasons. Absolutely...probably the most important one of the decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 08:51 AM) Absolutely...probably the most important one of the decade. Well, considering how long it's been since this team has drafted in the top 10, I don't think anyone could seriously disagree with that. When was the last time this team had a top 10 pick before this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 11:01 AM) Well, considering how long it's been since this team has drafted in the top 10, I don't think anyone could seriously disagree with that. When was the last time this team had a top 10 pick before this year? If memory serves me, it was 1990. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjuevos Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 i think our offense is good and should be able to hang with the likes of det and/or cle. however, without another bonafied starter, ie BEDARD, i don't think we can compete in the central. if somehow KW can pull off a heist and get another top starter, then i would be much more optimisitc about this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(mjuevos @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 12:05 PM) i think our offense is good and should be able to hang with the likes of det and/or cle. however, without another bonafied starter, ie BEDARD, i don't think we can compete in the central. if somehow KW can pull off a heist and get another top starter, then i would be much more optimisitc about this season. the Sox don't have the pieces necessary to get another stud; besides that, Bedard is already on his way to Seattle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 QUOTE(mjuevos @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 12:05 PM) i think our offense is good and should be able to hang with the likes of det and/or cle. however, without another bonafied starter, ie BEDARD, i don't think we can compete in the central. if somehow KW can pull off a heist and get another top starter, then i would be much more optimisitc about this season. Welcome aboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Paw Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Feb 7, 2008 -> 01:06 PM) Welcome aboard. no way we get bedard crede probably wont even get us lowry and our farm system is incredibly thin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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