Joakim Noah/The NBA Draft

[knightni]

That definitely appears to be true, a lot of the guys at the top of the draft appear to be tweeners, developmental prospects, or guys may not have the athleticism to be above average starters at the next level. I'm not particularly thrilled with this group and would personally like to see the Bulls trade the pick if they can get decent value.

Yeah.

The Bulls have too many marginal projects on their bench as it is. I mean, they've had how many lottery/top 20 picks in the last 12 years?

What have they had to show for it; an early playoff exit?

[nitetrain8601]

Andre was much more raw and on a much better team so his stats weren't that impressive. I would assume the comparison would be to what he is now, which is a pretty solid all-around SG, though he's also on a bad team that's going nowhere. Either way Kobe is a stretch, he'd be doing so much more if he were really on that level and wouldn't be a borderline top-5 pick if he were. Kobe is a once every ten years type player, Mayo can't come close to that yet. He's so "special" that there are two other guys in his class putting up very similar numbers and another player at another position that is playing far better.

 

You were probably one of the same people that said the same thing about Durant last year, weren't you? There's a very big difference between the two leagues, everyone is a lot quicker and stronger and things get a lot more difficult. Even assuming the same level of talent, the 3-point line is two feet farther back, which is just a huge difference. He's barely shooting 40% in college from the arc, I have a really hard time seeing him adjust to that, especially since he's pretty streaky from out there as it is. He simply can't play the same way and be productive, though he'll probably get his numbers. He will have an above average career in the league because he clearly has talent, but there's a very big difference between being a good scorer and being a legit star.

 

You don't remember Kobe's hype coming out of high school, it was a little less than OJ's. In fact, OJ was ahead of Kobe if you compared the two coming out of high school. Both supposedly had maturity problems (Kobe moreso). Kobe wasn't seen as a once in a lifetime player coming out of high school, that's why he wasn't even a top 10 pick. Only difference between Kobe and OJ is that one is taller. They both play the exact same game and both have the exact skillset.

 

And no, I would've taken OJ over Durant last year. Durant IMO is destined to be a quick PF. You put him at SF and you lose out a bit. He needs to bulk up and be able to bang. I also was very down on Jeff Green and Corey Brewer along with Noah. Again, the spacing will help OJ a ton in the NBA. He has a lightning quick first step just like Kobe has. OJ is as legit as there will be. His worst case scenario is being Larry Hughes(at his very best).

[nitetrain8601]

Yeah.

The Bulls have too many marginal projects on their bench as it is. I mean, they've had how many lottery/top 20 picks in the last 12 years?

What have they had to show for it; an early playoff exit?

 

Blame the fault that the front office has not fired Tim Floyd's staff still. All the coaches we have are inept. And chances are, the next coach we have will be stuck with this same staff and they'll be lucky if they're able to hire just one of their own guys.

[knightni]

I hope that JR has the "cojones" to clean house in the offseason. That includes parting ways with Paxson.

[ZoomSlowik]

You don't remember Kobe's hype coming out of high school, it was a little less than OJ's. In fact, OJ was ahead of Kobe if you compared the two coming out of high school. Both supposedly had maturity problems (Kobe moreso). Kobe wasn't seen as a once in a lifetime player coming out of high school, that's why he wasn't even a top 10 pick. Only difference between Kobe and OJ is that one is taller. They both play the exact same game and both have the exact skillset.

 

And no, I would've taken OJ over Durant last year. Durant IMO is destined to be a quick PF. You put him at SF and you lose out a bit. He needs to bulk up and be able to bang. I also was very down on Jeff Green and Corey Brewer along with Noah. Again, the spacing will help OJ a ton in the NBA. He has a lightning quick first step just like Kobe has. OJ is as legit as there will be. His worst case scenario is being Larry Hughes(at his very best).

 

Yeah, OJ had a lot of hype. He also slid down the rankings as he got older (junior and senior year) because other guys that were considered to have higher ceilings (Beasley, Rose and Gordon) started passing him up. He finished #4 on Rivals. I didn't realize that hype and draft position are the ultimate determining factors of future success . Kobe was also the first perimeter player to ever declare for the draft straight out of high school, was only the second player to declare in recent history, and was in a historically strong draft class. Because of the success of Kobe and Tracy McGrady a guy like Martell Webster went #6 three years ago, who can't hold a candle to those guys.

 

Mayo may be able to handle the ball fairly well, have good quickness, and have a decent jumpshot. So do Jamal Crawford and Larry Hughes among others though, and they're not exactly franchise-changing stars. Kobe is on a different level. At the same age Kobe was averaging 15 a game on about 12 attempts with a 1.25/1 TO ratio in the NBA. That takes a lot more than just pretty good skills, and is quite a bit harder than doing what Mayo did in college (as Gordon and Bayless support to some extent).

 

Really? You're about the only one then. Even in a sub-par rookie season Durant is averaging almost 20 points a game, albiet he has turnover and shot selection issues and plays for an awful team. OJ has the same kind of issues, which isn't a good sign. Durant was an elite gunner in college too, and he's shooting below 30% from behind the arc. Any benefits from improved spacing is negated by the quality of opponents. He's not going to be able to light up second tier guys on lesser schools anymore, and he already struggled a fair amount against most of the better competitiion on the schedule. He's simply not the kind of guy that is going to come in and totally dominate from day 1, his decision making skills still need a lot of work.

 

Yes, he has talent, but so do a lot of college players, and very few of them turn out to be true superstars, possibly none out of this draft class. We'll have to wait and see, right now he just looks far too inefficient and turnover prone to come in and dominate right away, and I'm really not convinced that he's an upgrade over Gordon and Hughes in the short term. I'm sure we've both been wrong before, so I plan on stopping contributions to this thread-jack.

Edited March 25, 2008 by ZoomSlowik

[nitetrain8601]

I hope that JR has the "cojones" to clean house in the offseason. That includes parting ways with Paxson.

 

I'd give Paxson one more year. He saw what happens when you're reluctant to trade players, even for Kobe who's a bonafide top 5 player ever.

[nitetrain8601]

Yeah, OJ had a lot of hype. He also slid down the rankings as he got older (junior and senior year) because other guys that were considered to have higher ceilings (Beasley, Rose and Gordon) started passing him up. He finished #4 on Rivals. I didn't realize that hype and draft position are the ultimate determining factors of future success . Kobe was also the first perimeter player to ever declare for the draft straight out of high school, was only the second player to declare in recent history, and was in a historically strong draft class. Because of the success of Kobe and Tracy McGrady a guy like Martell Webster went #6 three years ago, who can't hold a candle to those guys.

 

Mayo may be able to handle the ball fairly well, have good quickness, and have a decent jumpshot. So do Jamal Crawford and Larry Hughes among others though, and they're not exactly franchise-changing stars. Kobe is on a different level. At the same age Kobe was averaging 15 a game on about 12 attempts with a 1.25/1 TO ratio in the NBA. That takes a lot more than just pretty good skills, and is quite a bit harder than doing what Mayo did in college (as Gordon and Bayless support to some extent).

 

Really? You're about the only one then. Even in a sub-par rookie season Durant is averaging almost 20 points a game, albiet he has turnover and shot selection issues and plays for an awful team. OJ has the same kind of issues, which isn't a good sign. Durant was an elite gunner in college too, and he's shooting below 30% from behind the arc. Any benefits from improved spacing is negated by the quality of opponents. He's not going to be able to light up second tier guys on lesser schools anymore, and he already struggled a fair amount against most of the better competitiion on the schedule. He's simply not the kind of guy that is going to come in and totally dominate from day 1, his decision making skills still need a lot of work.

 

Yes, he has talent, but so do a lot of college players, and very few of them turn out to be true superstars, possibly none out of this draft class. We'll have to wait and see, right now he just looks far too inefficient and turnover prone to come in and dominate right away, and I'm really not convinced that he's an upgrade over Gordon and Hughes in the short term. I'm sure we've both been wrong before, so I plan on stopping contributions to this thread-jack.

 

Mayo has great quickness, very much on the level of Kobe's. He handles the ball pretty well and his jumper is good, but it's setup by his ability to penetrate and get easy shots. Jamal Crawford should not be thrown in this. He has no feel for the game as he only played 1 year of high school ball and a little more than half a season of college ball before entering the NBA. Hughes his very best season is OJ's worst case scenario. His talent is far above others and his feel for the game is excellent. He's one of the hardest working kids you'll ever know and has that killer instinct. He doesn't want to just beat you, he wants to embarass you and make you not want to play the game ever again.

[knightni]

Mayo has great quickness, very much on the level of Kobe's. He handles the ball pretty well and his jumper is good, but it's setup by his ability to penetrate and get easy shots. Jamal Crawford should not be thrown in this. He has no feel for the game as he only played 1 year of high school ball and a little more than half a season of college ball before entering the NBA. Hughes his very best season is OJ's worst case scenario. His talent is far above others and his feel for the game is excellent. He's one of the hardest working kids you'll ever know and has that killer instinct. He doesn't want to just beat you, he wants to embarass you and make you not want to play the game ever again.

Sounds like a "black hole" type of player, ie. ball goes in, never comes out.

[DBAHO]

Who would you want to replace Paxson though?

[knightni]

Who would you want to replace Paxson though?

Paxson had minimal experience when he was hired. I'm sure that someone could be found.

[lostfan]

I'd give Paxson one more year. He saw what happens when you're reluctant to trade players, even for Kobe who's a bonafide top 5 player ever.

Paxson deserves credit for resurrecting this franchise from the laughingstock of the NBA thanks to Krause, but he also deserves every bit of blame for not having the balls to do what he needs to do and hanging onto his overrated low-ceiling players.

[DBAHO]

nbadraft.net just redid their draft.

 

They have Westbrook to Chicago at #9. Blake Griffin is the big riser to #6, Nicolas Batum (tall French SG) at #11.

[rangercal]

This is the first year in awhile that there seems to be no clearcut #1 guy. Beasley is the best of them if he comes out, but he'd be no better than Top 5 pick, compared to other years.

Sorry Dude, I think you are wayyyy off on this. Derrick rose is a special talent and Beasley is even more special than him. I think both of these guys have a great chance to develop into top 15 players in the league (maybe even more) . I would trade any single player and most 2 player packages to obtain one of these two if I were John Paxson.

[RockRaines]

Sorry Dude, I think you are wayyyy off on this. Derrick rose is a special talent and Beasley is even more special than him. I think both of these guys have a great chance to develop into top 15 players in the league (maybe even more) . I would trade any single player and most 2 player packages to obtain one of these two if I were John Paxson.

Seriously? Durant is a top 15 guy, Oden is a top guy, Carmelo was a top guy. Beasley is kind of a tweener. He doesnt excel on the outside and will basically have to bang against bigger guys in the post. I wouldnt put him up there with top picks of the last several drafts IMO.

[rangercal]

Seriously? Durant is a top 15 guy, Oden is a top guy, Carmelo was a top guy. Beasley is kind of a tweener. He doesnt excel on the outside and will basically have to bang against bigger guys in the post. I wouldnt put him up there with top picks of the last several drafts IMO.

 

Well they won't reach their ceilings overnight, they are 19. Howver, as the Nowitzkis, Iversons and Garnetts continue to get Older, players like Beasley and Rose will take their place.

[Balta1701]

I'd give Paxson one more year. He saw what happens when you're reluctant to trade players, even for Kobe who's a bonafide top 5 player ever.

If you believe at all the multiple reports, including at least one directly from Paxson's mouth, Kobe Bryant was never available. The Lakers talked about him because they wanted to placate Kobe, but unless Kobe held out, they were NEVER going to trade him.

[daa84]

If you believe at all the multiple reports, including at least one directly from Paxson's mouth, Kobe Bryant was never available. The Lakers talked about him because they wanted to placate Kobe, but unless Kobe held out, they were NEVER going to trade him.

yeah but meanwhile gasol and garnett are off with other teams competing for championships

[nitetrain8601]

If you believe at all the multiple reports, including at least one directly from Paxson's mouth, Kobe Bryant was never available. The Lakers talked about him because they wanted to placate Kobe, but unless Kobe held out, they were NEVER going to trade him.

 

He was very much available which is why a 3 way deal was in place to obtain him, but the Lakers wanted one more piece from the Bulls which is why it fell apart.

[lostfan]

lol @ the complete jacking of this thread, but Noah's got 13 points and 6 rebounds at the half vs. the Bucks. Not too bad.

[SoxFan1]

18 and 15 for Noah in the win vs the Bucks tonight.

[iamshack]

He was very much available which is why a 3 way deal was in place to obtain him, but the Lakers wanted one more piece from the Bulls which is why it fell apart.

 

Interesting. What was the deal?