The Democrat Thread

[lostfan]

The things people on my side will come back to in order to defend him is that he's actually a legitimate policy wonk. He could sit down with top people from think tanks and go on about policy details with the best of them. He went from being a comedian with a political bent to expanding his political thoughts on a radio show with a non-trivial amount of policy details thrown in to actually organizing and running a campaign for the Senate. You could sit him down tomorrow and go through the health care debate, and the next day he could explain to you the finer intricacies of the difference between a carbon tax and a cap and trade system.

Limbaugh could do that too if he wanted, but he just chooses not to and to be an ignoramus instead.

[Balta1701]

Limbaugh could do that too if he wanted, but he just chooses not to and to be an ignoramus instead.

Frankly, I dunno if he could. Have you ever heard a serious policy discussion from him? Not just on his radio show, but in private speeches, appearances, writings, etc.?

[lostfan]

Frankly, I dunno if he could. Have you ever heard a serious policy discussion from him? Not just on his radio show, but in private speeches, appearances, writings, etc.?

Depends, how do you define "policy"? He talks about generic conservative principles ad nauseam but doesn't really get that specific except to say that liberals are stupid. You definitely won't get it from Hannity either, he is a tool. There are other conservative hosts that actually do though.

[bmags]

Depends, how do you define "policy"? He talks about generic conservative principles ad nauseam but doesn't really get that specific except to say that liberals are stupid. You definitely won't get it from Hannity either, he is a tool. There are other conservative hosts that actually do though.

 

how hard is it to say "get rid of it"

[StrangeSox]

Frankly, I dunno if he could. Have you ever heard a serious policy discussion from him? Not just on his radio show, but in private speeches, appearances, writings, etc.?

 

How about "he could if he tried"?

 

Doing what he does makes him a rich man, so there's no motivation to actually make a coherent, well-supported argument.

[lostfan]

How about "he could if he tried"?

 

Doing what he does makes him a rich man, so there's no motivation to actually make a coherent, well-supported argument.

Pretty much what I was trying to say. He doesn't because he doesn't want to. I'm saying he probably could be a policy wonk if he wanted but since ranting and mocking gets him unbelievably rich, he's never going to.

[southsider2k5]

Pretty much what I was trying to say. He doesn't because he doesn't want to. I'm saying he probably could be a policy wonk if he wanted but since ranting and mocking gets him unbelievably rich, he's never going to.

 

Which is exactly right, because when he first started getting going, he used to do exactly that, until he figured out what sold.

[kapkomet]

Which is exactly right, because when he first started getting going, he used to do exactly that, until he figured out what sold.

Exactly. He's a blowhard now, for that very reason. Although, when he wants to, he can get into a pretty good policy discussion. That's almost never.

 

Which is kind of funny... think about it - politicians as a whole can't talk about their own policies either - because they don't have to. They just dumb it down for the 15 second sound bite - it's the only thing that Americans seem to be able to digest.

 

[lostfan]

More insight on Obama and gays in the military.

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry1940139

 

I always thought it was an executive order Clinton signed as a compromise. I never realized Congress actually passed legislation for it and that it'd take Congressional action to change it. No wonder Obama hasn't done anything yet.

[southsider2k5]

More insight on Obama and gays in the military.

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry1940139

 

I always thought it was an executive order Clinton signed as a compromise. I never realized Congress actually passed legislation for it and that it'd take Congressional action to change it. No wonder Obama hasn't done anything yet.

 

Do you think if he REALLY wanted to do something, he could have put the pressure on Congress in one of his primetime news confrences or the like? Of all the things he has tried to get done, he has made a very clear public campaign for, including ones that take Congressional action. Gays in the military is obviously not that important to him right now, or he would have put it out there in a very public manner.

[lostfan]

Do you think if he REALLY wanted to do something, he could have put the pressure on Congress in one of his primetime news confrences or the like? Of all the things he has tried to get done, he has made a very clear public campaign for, including ones that take Congressional action. Gays in the military is obviously not that important to him right now, or he would have put it out there in a very public manner.

I've posted on this before. He has a bunch of other priorities that he has to push first. This one will eventually come and just has to wait its turn. I was under the assumption that he didn't want to spend political capital doing it and all he had to do was sign a new executive order but it's much more complicated than that, although there's ways for him to subvert that if he wanted.

 

His list of priorities, from January to about the fall looks something like:

Economy/financial regulation

National security/foreign policy

Healthcare reform (which, if he succeeds, probably will define this term)

Immigration reform (next up and actually might succeed this time)

Environmental legislation (Congress doing it on their own)

 

 

...modifying policy on gays in the military

[southsider2k5]

Like I said... it isn't that important to him.

[StrangeSox]

Which is exactly right, because when he first started getting going, he used to do exactly that, until he figured out what sold.

 

Another free market failure. Fluff, hyperbole and polemics sell much, much better than intelligent policy discussions.

[StrangeSox]

Do you think if he REALLY wanted to do something, he could have put the pressure on Congress in one of his primetime news confrences or the like? Of all the things he has tried to get done, he has made a very clear public campaign for, including ones that take Congressional action. Gays in the military is obviously not that important to him right now, or he would have put it out there in a very public manner.

 

I'll say that he has much bigger fish he wants to fry right now and that this isn't important enough for him to burn any political capital on right now. If/ when C&P and some form of Health Care Reform get through, then we'll see some movement on this.

[kapkomet]

I'll say that he has much bigger fish he wants to fry right now and that this isn't important enough for him to burn any political capital on right now. If/ when C&P and some form of Health Care Reform get through, then we'll see some movement on this.

After "the law to get more Democrat voters" passes (I mean immigration).

[Balta1701]

After "the law to get more Democrat voters" passes (I mean immigration).

So now we see the true reason for why you folks oppose legit immigration reform.

[kapkomet]

So now we see the true reason for why you folks oppose legit immigration reform.

It's not "legit".

[Balta1701]

It's not "legit".

 

There's no actual reform proposal on the table, not even the outlines of one right now, and you can already tell that any effort to reform the system wouldn't be legit.

[kapkomet]

 

There's no actual reform proposal on the table, not even the outlines of one right now, and you can already tell that any effort to reform the system wouldn't be legit.

That's right. They are going to try to do what they did last time, and IMO, it's not "legit".

 

Pay a fine, "learn English", BAM, you're a citizen!

 

What a deal! Then, guess what? You get that FREE health care!

'

[Balta1701]

Demagoguery makes my brain hurt. I'm going for food.

[lostfan]

Sending all the illegals back to Mexico is nothing more than a fantasy and I'm really wondering why people still actually talk about it like it's something that can actually be done.

[StrangeSox]

Sending all the illegals back to Mexico is nothing more than a fantasy and I'm really wondering why people still actually talk about it like it's something that can actually be done.

 

Another free market failure. Fluff, hyperbole and polemics sell much, much better than intelligent policy discussions.

 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2009 by StrangeSox

[lostfan]

Touche

[kapkomet]

Sending all the illegals back to Mexico is nothing more than a fantasy and I'm really wondering why people still actually talk about it like it's something that can actually be done.

Did I say that?

[Balta1701]

Did I say that?

You've opposed any measure that would give them any degree of citizenship on the grounds that it would give the Democrats more voters and then they'd have to have health care. The other options are:

 

1. Deport em all!

2. Do nothing

3. A system that legalizes them but doesn't give them a path to citizenship. Problem of course is that it makes them an indentured servant of whatever company they work for; they can never improve their conditions because they get deported if they get fired.