Tex, there are fake ID's, and there are FAKE ID's. Yes, some forgeries are good. Do you punish people for those? Neh. But if the birth certificate of social security card looks like someone made it in their basement with an old IBM Seletric, then yeah, you punish them. KNOWINGLY is the ppint there. Some fakes are so bad, that the only way to get by is if someone wants them to. You can also get the ACLU and immigrant groups to STFU about the social secirity number check they tried to institute, but is in court now by those two groups. Employers are supposed to submit ss numbers for verification to make sure names match the numbers, but somehow the ACLU finds that to be a bad thing. And I was very sure of my guys ID's. Especially Juddlings, since he is my brother.

 

We're close to agreeing.

 

I just get very protective of American business when I look at other penalties for accepting forgeries. No body says if you have a guy working for you that is wanted for murder, shut down the business. But if you have someone working for you that is here illegally, they want the business shut down. Doesn't seem fair to the business and potentially a disaster for our economy. We bail out banks for bad decisions, then turn around and put an employer out of business? When half our agriculture companies are closed, what does that do for our economy and our ability to feed ourselves?

We're close to agreeing.

 

I just get very protective of American business when I look at other penalties for accepting forgeries. No body says if you have a guy working for you that is wanted for murder, shut down the business. But if you have someone working for you that is here illegally, they want the business shut down. Doesn't seem fair to the business and potentially a disaster for our economy. We bail out banks for bad decisions, then turn around and put an employer out of business? When half our agriculture companies are closed, what does that do for our economy and our ability to feed ourselves?

See, if Johnnie goes and institutes a workable guest worker program, like I said, then you wouldn't have any worries there. The worker pool would be big enough that he wouldn't have to take chances with iffy ID's, or knwoingly hire someone with crappy fakes. I worked at a bar briefly, I have seen some pretty good fakes, and some pretty bad ones. But with the ss number verification, that would catch 90% of the illegals, since they usually steal someone else's numbers and the names simply wouldn't match. Sure, if there is no worker program, your scenerio could possibly play out. But with one, I think it is merely a fever dream. And if you knowingly hire a guy wanted for murder, you would be arrested for harboring a fugitive.

I don't have a candidate yet.

I disagree with Obama on FISA. And I disagree with his position on gay marriage.

I disagree with Obama on FISA. And I disagree with his position on gay marriage.

Obama has stated that he's against Gay Marriage?

 

Isn't that against general Democrat opinion?

Obama has stated that he's against Gay Marriage?

 

Isn't that against general Democrat opinion?

 

Obama does not support the legalization of gay marriage. He does support Civil Unions. Its halfway to equality, but its not equality.

Worst of each-

 

Obama: I don't like his proposed massive spending increases.

 

McCain: Don't like his foreign policy. US = World cop and the massive financial costs of having such a policy.

 

 

Basically I think both will spend way too much, even though we are gonna be 10 trillion in debt soon.

Its halfway to equality, but its not equality.

 

^^^^^

 

I miss my Kucinich.

^^^^^

 

I miss my Kucinich.

 

Richardson, too.

I hate that Obama has managed to NOT put away this pair of posers already. It should really be like 65/35 at this point.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, he's black. Therein lies the explanation.

Edited September 20, 200817 yr by Steve9347

I don't like that Obama is Black or a male for that matter.

 

Seriously though, I am disappointed that he flip flopped his stance on the Patriot Act.

I hate that Obama has managed to NOT put away this pair of posers already. It should really be like 65/35 at this point.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, he's black. Therein lies the explanation.

 

You speak the Truth.

I hate that Obama has managed to NOT put away this pair of posers already. It should really be like 65/35 at this point.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, he's black. Therein lies the explanation.

 

You might want to read this.

I hate that Obama has managed to NOT put away this pair of posers already. It should really be like 65/35 at this point.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, he's black. Therein lies the explanation.

 

green?

Ok, haven't chimed in yet, so here we go.

 

In no particular order

FISA

Ethanol

The continued insistence that there is something called "Clean coal".

The lack of emphasis on eliminating the structural budget deficit.

The fact that he adopted the simply incorrect notion that there is a "Crisis" in Social Security

The fact that his health care plan does not provide universal coverage and does not challenge the insurance companies nearly enough

The fact that he often lets Senator McCain drag him along down the idiotic "The only serious foreign policy is to bomb everyone" path, a-la how he followed McCain's lead on the Georgia/NATO question.

Civil Unions

 

Probably come up with more soon.

If people, mainly democrats, arent going to vote for Obama because he is black than that shows a flaw in said democrats. Its nobody that wasnt going to vote for him anyways fault.

Obama could stand to lean a lot more to left IMO, but he wouldn't get elected if he did.

The fact that he adopted the simply incorrect notion that there is a "Crisis" in Social Security

 

Probably come up with more soon.

 

His policy proposals on Social Security don't act as if there's a crisis, more acts instead as if there are reasonable solutions to a problem far out into the horizon. Has he adopted the notion? Or is he just using the framework of perception to push forward a reasonable proposal?

^^^^^

 

I miss my Kucinich.

 

At the beginning, he was my favorite. Oh well.

 

I disagree with pretty much the main stuff that's been mentioned about Obama so far.

I hate that Obama has managed to NOT put away this pair of posers already. It should really be like 65/35 at this point.

 

EDIT: Oh wait, he's black. Therein lies the explanation.

 

I'd be willing to bet for every person not voting for Obama because he is black, there is another voting for him because he is black.

I'd be willing to bet for every person not voting for Obama because he is black, there is another voting for him because he is black.

Among black people or white (or otherwise non-black) people? Among black people it's a moot point because they already vote Democrat almost all the time. They'll probably turn out in higher numbers, but it's not like their vote would be any different if it was anyone else running.

 

Among other people, I really, really doubt it.

Among black people or white (or otherwise non-black) people? Among black people it's a moot point because they already vote Democrat almost all the time. They'll probably turn out in higher numbers, but it's not like their vote would be any different if it was anyone else running.

 

Among other people, I really, really doubt it.

 

Overall totals. Lots of people who have never voted before are going to do so, and a chunk of them are for that exact reason.