NorthSideSox72 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 QUOTE (Texsox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:16 AM) Three. Didn't play the field for most of his career, NL media bias Four. Slowed by injury 20 years. Yeah, I forgot about that one, but definitely his DH-ness will be a hinderence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:47 AM) Yeah, I forgot about that one, but definitely his DH-ness will be a hinderence. That and the milkman vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:47 AM) Yeah, I forgot about that one, but definitely his DH-ness will be a hinderence. 80 games in the field his last 15 seasons contributed to his longevity. Like I said, I love Harold. He was a sweet hitter, had a lot of huge hits. But..............289, .356 OBP average. If he's knees had remained healthy, he probably would have been a HOFer. But then again, if I could run a 4.2 40, I'd probably be a HOF running back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 08:55 AM) 80 games in the field his last 15 seasons contributed to his longevity. Like I said, I love Harold. He was a sweet hitter, had a lot of huge hits. But..............289, .356 OBP average. If he's knees had remained healthy, he probably would have been a HOFer. But then again, if I could run a 4.2 40, I'd probably be a HOF running back. All excellent points. So if he produced the same career totals, but only played 16 seasons, you would value that higher? That it's so much career totals, but season totals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Texsox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:00 AM) All excellent points. So if he produced the same career totals, but only played 16 seasons, you would value that higher? That it's so much career totals, but season totals? I'm surprised your not arguing about the injustice of Fred McGriff not being in the HOF. He only had 78 RBI less than Harold in 1100 less AB. Slugged at a higher pct. Got on base more often. Why is he not on your list? He's lost his eligibility, which will soon happen to Harold. Edited December 2, 2008 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:17 AM) I'm surprised your not arguing about the injustice of Fred McGriff not being in the HOF. He only had 78 RBI less than Harold in 1100 less AB. Slugged at a higher pct. Got on base more often. Why is he not on your list? He's lost his eligibility, which will soon happen to Harold. I do not believe I made a list. I'm just trying to understand your criteria. It seems to value, for example, 12 great seasons over 22 nearly great seasons. You would rather a guy pick up 2,000 hits in 16 seasons than say 2,800 in 22 seasons. It doesn't matter as much where they rank in all-time totals, but rather how they got there. Several seasons leading the league versus twice as many, but only in the top 10. Longevity doesn't factor in. I tend to appreciate the skill and dedication required in career totals over percentages. One or two season wonders many times lead the league. (Does Loiaza and his 20+ win season make him a better pitcher than say Buerhle?) But yours is a very valid point of view, and shared by the majority of baseball writers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 QUOTE (Texsox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:51 AM) That and the milkman vote It goes a long way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (Texsox @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 09:36 AM) I do not believe I made a list. I'm just trying to understand your criteria. It seems to value, for example, 12 great seasons over 22 nearly great seasons. You would rather a guy pick up 2,000 hits in 16 seasons than say 2,800 in 22 seasons. It doesn't matter as much where they rank in all-time totals, but rather how they got there. Several seasons leading the league versus twice as many, but only in the top 10. Longevity doesn't factor in. I tend to appreciate the skill and dedication required in career totals over percentages. One or two season wonders many times lead the league. (Does Loiaza and his 20+ win season make him a better pitcher than say Buerhle?) But yours is a very valid point of view, and shared by the majority of baseball writers. The only way you can play as long as Harold did is if your consistent like he was, and he was a good player. His 162 game average is .289 22 homers 93 rbi. That's very good. He averaged 129 games a year. So he averaged 17.5 homers and 74 rbi a season. That keeps you around making a nice check playing a game, but shouldn't put you in the HOF. If Harold Baines spent most of his career with a team other than the White Sox, I believe your opinion would be diffferent. Edited December 2, 2008 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 07:14 PM) I think you need to look at it with some time-period perspective. Find another player during roughly his career period that was as productive as he was in power numbers - I am not sure you can find any. Actually, one of them is also on the list - Dale Murphy. The guy simply wasnt productive enough to be in the HOF IMO. He was a very good player, and is elevated by the fact he played his whole career for the Red Sox, and that they have been campaigning for him to be in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 (edited) QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 11:25 PM) Only guys id vote in are Tim Raines and Rickey Henderson, I also imagine Mark Grace will eventually get in but he isn't a first ballot guy. That would be my vote too. Quite simply the two best lead off hitters of all time (that I watched). Edited December 2, 2008 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 QUOTE (rangercal @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 02:17 AM) Let's just change the name to the "Hall of Very Good" . Well, it's not the Hall of Greatness, it's the Hall of Fame. So only the most famous players should get in, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 QUOTE (The Critic @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 11:28 AM) Well, it's not the Hall of Greatness, it's the Hall of Fame. So only the most famous players should get in, obviously. That makes Swisher a shoo-in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Completely agree with Dick Allen on the Baines argument. As for McGriff, I don't think he's eligible until next year, he's a very interesting case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 QUOTE (WhiteSoxfan1986 @ Dec 1, 2008 -> 07:53 PM) Couldn't disagree more. Dawson and his .323 obp have no business being in the hall of fame. 2700+ hits, 400+ homers, 300+ SBs and 8 gold gloves beg to differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 I guess someone has to have the most hits and ribs without being in the HoF. Since that doesn't seem to be that big of a feat, I wonder why more guys don't play 22 years and rack up similar numbers. Too bad he didn't juice a few seasons. Hit 50+ and be a shoo in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 It should be noted that Baines was basically a platoon player for a bunch of his last few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 QUOTE (bschmaranz @ Dec 2, 2008 -> 01:36 PM) 2700+ hits, 400+ homers, 300+ SBs and 8 gold gloves beg to differ. Couldn't agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Baines, in fact, never had 500 at-bats after 1989. He came close a few times but didn't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Frank Tanana is 34th all time in innings pitched, 52nd all time in wins and in the top 25 all time for strikeouts. He's never been considered a HOF type, neither should Harold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Rickey. Not only does he have the credentials but his speech would be epic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:56 AM) Rickey. Not only does he have the credentials but his speech would be epic If a voter doesn't put Rickey on their ballot, they should have their voting rights stripped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:41 AM) If a voter doesn't put Rickey on their ballot, they should have their voting rights stripped. I'm just glad I got to see Rickey play a little bit. He was an absolute blast to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 02:35 PM) I'm just glad I got to see Rickey play a little bit. He was an absolute blast to watch. Outside of Bo, he was easily the best athlete I ever saw play baseball in person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 ok now maybe i should go post this on a cubs board, but id be accused of trolling...but people always want to know why i think ron santo is such a turd....well im posting two excerps from articles, about two separate potential HOFers who til now have fallen short that highlight their reactions... Never one for self-promotion toward individual accolades, Baines simply feels honored to be included with his fellow standout teammates and opponents. Baines lists Edgar Martinez as probably the first DH to be elected, but without pointing to himself, Baines feels the DH definitely should be considered like any other position by perspective voters. "I am more nervous about being psyched up," said Santo, who adds he is not inviting camera crews and media members to his house to hear the announcement as in the past. "If I get in, bring all of the cameras you want. But if I don't get in, I don't want to go through it. I just have a feeling it is going to take me a little while. I just want to be with my wife. That's it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderBolt Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 (edited) Say what you want for Santo’s skills as a broadcaster, but his love for the Cubs has no equal. I really hope he gets in this year, he has the numbers, and he’s gone through so much in his life that he deserves at least a little comfort though the Hall of Fame. I'm not really sure what's not to like about the guy, other than him being a Cub and a total homer, but these are just my thoughts. Edited December 7, 2008 by Thunderbolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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