Who's next for the great Cooooo? Retiring Rafael Palmeiro's number? Use the link for a take on the Cubs' 'honoring' Greg Maddux

 

http://www.kenoshanews.com/sports/marran__...er_4607651.html

Edited March 22, 200917 yr by StatManDu

Greg Maddux won 133 games for the Cubs, which is 11 more than Mark Buerhle has won for the White Sox, and a Cy Young. He's also a first ballot HOFer. The Cubs are totally justified retiring his number. The question to me would be why it even was available to him in the first place?

The real question is, what number will Gordon Beckham wear?

it would be badass for beckham to stick with the 80

Greg Maddux won 133 games for the Cubs, which is 11 more than Mark Buerhle has won for the White Sox, and a Cy Young. He's also a first ballot HOFer. The Cubs are totally justified retiring his number. The question to me would be why it even was available to him in the first place?

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Yes!

 

The 'other' #31... Ferguson Jenkins...

Started more games than any pitcher in Cubs history

He's their all-time strikeout leader

He's 5th in wins (and most of the other players on the wins list are from a long long time ago)

He's 4th all-time in shutouts (ditto on the list of players he's behind... like Mordecai Brown, Hippo Vaughn, etc.)

And he's been inducted into the baseball HOF ('91).

 

He is one of the best pitchers I have ever seen in Chicago... an absolute workhorse.

 

I think the way the Cubs organization treated Fergie for so long illustrates how clueless their organization has been for most of the last 40 years.

Edited March 23, 200917 yr by scenario

 

Have the Cubbies retired the jersey of Bruce Sutter who won the Cy Young award in 1979 before leaving for the Cardinals were he too won a World Series?

 

Maybe the Nationals can retire the number of Pedro Martinez since he won the Cy Young award with the Expos before they traded him to the Red Sox.

 

Seems a bit goofy to include Maddux when his greatest success was achieved with another team. Why would you want that reminder?

Greg Maddux won 133 games for the Cubs, which is 11 more than Mark Buerhle has won for the White Sox, and a Cy Young. He's also a first ballot HOFer. The Cubs are totally justified retiring his number. The question to me would be why it even was available to him in the first place?

[Fergie Jenkins] achieved his 250th win was against the Oakland Athletics on May 23, 1980. Later that year, during a customs search in Toronto, Ontario, Jenkins was found possessing 3.0 grams cocaine, 2.2 grams hashish, and 1.75 grams marijuana. In response, Commissioner Bowie Kuhn suspended him indefinitely. Jenkins missed the rest of the 1980 season, but in an unprecedented action, an independent arbiter reinstated him and he returned to the game, playing until his retirement following the 1983 season. It has been suggested that this incident delayed his induction into the Baseball Hall of Fame.

 

Have the Cubbies retired the jersey of Bruce Sutter who won the Cy Young award in 1979 before leaving for the Cardinals were he too won a World Series?

 

Maybe the Nationals can retire the number of Pedro Martinez since he won the Cy Young award with the Expos before they traded him to the Red Sox.

 

Seems a bit goofy to include Maddux when his greatest success was achieved with another team. Why would you want that reminder?

Why honor Baines, Fisk and Minoso then?

 

They had success elsewhere as well.

I consider Maddux an Atlanta Brave. But I don't care what the Cubs do, just as long as they continue to provide comic relief for me

Why honor Baines, Fisk and Minoso then?

 

They had success elsewhere as well.

 

Minoso and Baines were undoubtedly better with the Sox and Fisk is arguably with either team. With Maddux, it isn't remotely close.

There is no doubt that Maddux should have his number retired, but not by the cubs. Look at it this way; if Maddux played those ten season, as he did with the Braves, for the southside would the cubs retire his number. What if those seasons were with the Cards, I dont think there is a chance in hell they would. He had all of five winning seasons with the Cubs.

Edited March 23, 200917 yr by Stocking

Mark Grace deserves it before Maddux. Grace had the more hits in the 90s than anybody. He had a much better career as a cub

Mark Grace deserves it before Maddux. Grace had the more hits in the 90s than anybody. He had a much better career as a cub

 

He also never had more than 17 homers in a season, which is awful for a 1B. That being said, I don't think the Cubs should honor Maddux either.

The Seaver comparison is ridiculous because he won exactly 100 games less in a Sox uni then Maddux did in a Cubs uni.

There is no doubt that Maddux should have his number retired, but not by the cubs. Look at it this way; if Maddux played those ten season, as he did with the Braves, for the southside would the cubs retire his number. What if those seasons were with the Cards, I dont think there is a chance in hell they would. He had all of five winning seasons with the Cubs.

That's ridiculous. If Mark Buerhle blows out his arm this year and wins 10 games, you wouldn't think its justified his 56 be retired if JR chose to do it? What about Harold Baines. His number was retired and he played 10 more years. He had only 2 full seasons with an OBP of .350 or higher at that point with the White Sox and had hit about 200 homers. Any team that wants to retire any number for any reason is justified IMO. The Miami Heat retired 23 in honor of Michael Jordan. He never played for them (but did make them some money).

Baines was still active with another team when his number was retired. I could easily see Buerhle's number being retired, a few more seasons and it will be a no brainer.

 

Are the Cubs still holding Jenkin's cocaine arrest against him?

Baines was still active with another team when his number was retired. I could easily see Buerhle's number being retired, a few more seasons and it will be a no brainer.

 

Are the Cubs still holding Jenkin's cocaine arrest against him?

 

They will retire Thomas and Konerko's if he remains here a few more years, in addition to Buehrle's. But I think that's it from this era.

If any pitcher deserves to have his number retired on two teams, this is the spot. Sure, it's PR, but it's not like this is an attendance ploy. Maddux could have 31 retired throughout baseball and I wouldn't mind.

They will retire Thomas and Konerko's if he remains here a few more years, in addition to Buehrle's. But I think that's it from this era.

 

And I think Kong is a marginal at this moment.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ozzie's 13 retired as well for his years as a player and manager.

And I think Kong is a marginal at this moment.

Think about this, Konerko has more homers as a White Sox, a higher OBP, a higher slugging pct. than Harold Baines as a White Sox, was an ALCS MVP and a WS hero and he's marginal getting his # retired. Baines even accumulated more stats AFTER his number was retired. There obviously is no criteria for getting the number retired. Its more than just stats. I think coming up through the organization, like Baines did with the Sox and Maddux did with the Cubs should mean something in the decision, even if a lot of career totals were accumulated elsewhere. Its not like Maddux was a Cub for 2 or 3 years.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ozzie's 13 retired as well for his years as a player and manager.

 

Unless there is a Carlton Fisk type ending between teh Sox and Ozzie, it is a done deal as far as I am concerned.

Here's another thought, does anyone really question Carlton Fisk having his number retired?

 

His average season in a White Sox uniform:

16 hr 58 rbi .257 avg. .329 obp

 

AJP's average season

15 hr 57 rbi .274 avg. .316 obp

 

Fisk's number absolutely s/b retired,even though he only caught over 100 games in a season 6 times for the White Sox. AJ's will never be. What you do elsewhere matters. I also think it shows AJP is not appreciated enough by a lot of people.

Edited March 23, 200917 yr by Dick Allen

Here's another thought, does anyone really question Carlton Fisk having his number retired?

 

His average season in a White Sox uniform:

16 hr 58 rbi .257 avg. .329 obp

 

AJP's average season

15 hr 57 rbi .274 avg. .316 obp

 

Fisk's number absolutely s/b retired,even though he only caught over 100 games in a season 6 times for the White Sox. AJ's will never be. What you do elsewhere matters. I also think it shows AJP is not appreciated enough by a lot of people.

 

I'll tell you this much. AJ's appreciated here. He's been a rock for this team. He's a GREAT competitor and a very solid ballplayer. He'll find any way he can to beat you. I hated him as a Twin for same reasons I love him as a Sox.

Think about this, Konerko has more homers as a White Sox, a higher OBP, a higher slugging pct. than Harold Baines as a White Sox, was an ALCS MVP and a WS hero and he's marginal getting his # retired. Baines even accumulated more stats AFTER his number was retired. There obviously is no criteria for getting the number retired. Its more than just stats. I think coming up through the organization, like Baines did with the Sox and Maddux did with the Cubs should mean something in the decision, even if a lot of career totals were accumulated elsewhere. Its not like Maddux was a Cub for 2 or 3 years.

 

It's a tough bar to set. The AJP stats were an eye opener. I'm with Yas, SJP has been a rock for this team. Which is why he is probably my favorite position player on the team. Buerhle would be #1 overall.

 

And SS has it right as well, Ozzie, barring something well "oz-like" is a shoe in.