Well, soft is putting it mildly. He's frustrated me his whole career with his insane athleticism early on, only to be average at best defensively.. (hell, I still think he could of been one of the all time greats if he only had 1/4th the effort to try to be an all around great player. Had all the tools, even the fortitude to have the ball in his hands with the game on the line) Was/Is just a very lazy player.

 

Vince + Kobe or KG's work ethic and drive = a top 5 player ever. No doubt in my mind. Rasheed Wallace is another guy that comes to mind. He should've been a perennial MVP candidate with his size, length and skills.

Vince + Kobe or KG's work ethic and drive = a top 5 player ever. No doubt in my mind. Rasheed Wallace is another guy that comes to mind. He should've been a perennial MVP candidate with his size, length and skills.

 

The NBA has a maddening percentage of guys like that.

Vince + Kobe or KG's work ethic and drive = a top 5 player ever. No doubt in my mind. Rasheed Wallace is another guy that comes to mind. He should've been a perennial MVP candidate with his size, length and skills.

Bill Simmons signed this post.

 

As for VC, he would not work on the Bulls. At all. He's basically, save one or two nights a month when he goes all-out, just a guy who pulls up for bad jumpers way too much.

Paper in Memphis floats a deal centered around Korver for Mayo.

Paper in Memphis floats a deal centered around Korver for May.

 

Doesn't the Grizzlies GM hate the Bulls?

Paper in Memphis floats a deal centered around Korver for May.

I was like... "May"? Sean May? Who? and immediately pondered how the Grizz got him and why we'd want him.

 

I see you meant Mayo. I don't see why the Grizzlies would do that, but yes, please.

I was like... "May"? Sean May? Who? and immediately pondered how the Grizz got him and why we'd want him.

 

I see you meant Mayo. I don't see why the Grizzlies would do that, but yes, please.

Crap, that would be a typo. Oops.

I was like... "May"? Sean May? Who? and immediately pondered how the Grizz got him and why we'd want him.

 

I see you meant Mayo. I don't see why the Grizzlies would do that, but yes, please.

 

I don't either. Although Korver might play a bigger role on that team next year than Mayo. Mayo was in the dog house all of last season.

Edited June 20, 201114 yr by chw42

Paper in Memphis floats a deal centered around Korver for Mayo.

 

That I would do.

Vince + Kobe or KG's work ethic and drive = a top 5 player ever. No doubt in my mind. Rasheed Wallace is another guy that comes to mind. He should've been a perennial MVP candidate with his size, length and skills.

 

The guys that always come to mind for me are Chris Webber and Shawn Kemp. Webber had everything KG had and was even a little stronger but never had nearly the impact. Kemp was obviously a freakish athlete that made a lot of highlight reels, but never really had the offensive skills to put up like 25 a game and ate his way out of the league.

Doesn't the Grizzlies GM hate the Bulls?

It's the owner I believe who is from or lives in Hinsdale. Doesn't like doing business with the Bulls for whatever reason. As for that deal, that is why journalists aren't GMs.

The guys that always come to mind for me are Chris Webber and Shawn Kemp. Webber had everything KG had and was even a little stronger but never had nearly the impact. Kemp was obviously a freakish athlete that made a lot of highlight reels, but never really had the offensive skills to put up like 25 a game and ate his way out of the league.

 

I have to disagree with you on Webber. He averaged around 21 ppg, 10 rpg, and 4 apg for his career, including a four year stretch where he averaged 25 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.5 bpg, and 1.5 spg.

I have to disagree with you on Webber. He averaged around 21 ppg, 10 rpg, and 4 apg for his career, including a four year stretch where he averaged 25 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.5 bpg, and 1.5 spg.

Webber's problem was always that he could dominate the lane but he insisted on taking poor percentage outside shots. That combined with a microfracture surgery is the reason he's not thought of as a HOF-er.

I have to disagree with you on Webber. He averaged around 21 ppg, 10 rpg, and 4 apg for his career, including a four year stretch where he averaged 25 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.5 bpg, and 1.5 spg.

 

There's a difference between putting up stats and making an impact on a contending team. Despite regularly having some pretty good talent on his teams (Juwan Howard and Rod Strickland in Washington, Bibby/Peja/Vlade in Sacramento), his teams really only mattered once in his entire career (and they choked/got robbed by the refs depending on your point of view).

 

How many people do you think KG would have murdered to play on that Sacramento team instead of relying on Wally Sczcerbiak and a collection of stiffs to help him most of his career?

 

Statistically he might compare favorably to guys like Duncan and Garnett, but there's no way in hell you'd consider taking him over either of them. You can't just use statistics as the be all and end all, otherwise you might make conclusions like Tracy McGrady= Kobe Bryant or that Shareef Abdur-Rahim was a superstar.

 

Much like the previously mentioned Vince Carter, Rasheed Wallace and Shawn Kemp, they were still All-Star caliber players, but they spent most of their careers collecting paychecks and watching the Finals on TV (yes, I know 'Sheed and Kemp both made one) when they had the talent to do a lot more.

Edited June 20, 201114 yr by ZoomSlowik

I agree with Zoom here. Give KG multiple all-stars or a similar cast as to what he's featured in Boston back in his prime, and he'd have at least 3-4 titles. Webber was definitely an underachiever to me.

Edited June 20, 201114 yr by Jordan4life

While we're on the topic, all-underachiever team?

 

For the purposes of this discussion, I'd limit it to the 90's on since that's what most of us are familiar with.

 

I'm also going to leave out guys with freakish athleticism but no skills that were horrendous flops and concentrate on guys that were good but not consistently great.

 

 

PG- Baron Davis (had the physical tools to dominate the PG position, but inconsistent effort and a lot of bad jumpers killed him)

 

SG- Tracy McGrady (combination of size and skills beats virtually anyone I've seen, but WAY too many jumpers most of his career)

 

SF- Vince Carter (too much coasting)

 

PF- Derrick Coleman (I'm REALLY mad at myself for forgetting about him as he is the team captain)

 

C- Rasheed Wallace (I guess. Does he count as a center? I can't think of a good one since they either tend to be good or useless)

 

 

 

(dis) Honorable Mention: Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Glenn Robinson, Shawn Kemp, Chris Webber, Larry Johnson (not totally sure he was athletic enough, but people definitely expected more)

 

 

LeBron has to be on that team at this point.

LeBron has to be on that team at this point.

Oh Lord, absolutely not, dude.

While we're on the topic, all-underachiever team?

 

For the purposes of this discussion, I'd limit it to the 90's on since that's what most of us are familiar with.

 

I'm also going to leave out guys with freakish athleticism but no skills that were horrendous flops and concentrate on guys that were good but not consistently great.

 

 

PG- Baron Davis (had the physical tools to dominate the PG position, but inconsistent effort and a lot of bad jumpers killed him)

 

SG- Tracy McGrady (combination of size and skills beats virtually anyone I've seen, but WAY too many jumpers most of his career)

 

SF- Vince Carter (too much coasting)

 

PF- Derrick Coleman (I'm REALLY mad at myself for forgetting about him as he is the team captain)

 

C- Rasheed Wallace (I guess. Does he count as a center? I can't think of a good one since they either tend to be good or useless)

 

 

 

(dis) Honorable Mention: Steve Francis, Stephon Marbury, Glenn Robinson, Shawn Kemp, Chris Webber, Larry Johnson (not totally sure he was athletic enough, but people definitely expected more)

Cousins on the same underachievers roster, I love it. It really depends on what you consider an underachiever. You have All-Stars on this roster, while I tend to want to put a guy who never amounted to s*** like Michael Olowakandi on there.

Oh Lord, absolutely not, dude.

 

Absolutely. I also would have included Zach Randolph up until the last year or so.

I mean in the true sense of the word how has Lebron not underachieved? Sure he still puts up phenomenal numbers, but this guy has FAR AND AWAY more basketball talent than anyone else in the league and hasn't won s***.

 

Playing hot potato with the ball in the fourth quarter of an elimination NBA finals game when you are the best player on the floor is underachieving.

Edited June 20, 201114 yr by WHarris1

I think I'll wait until he's 33-34 before I make that claim. I don't think he'll ever develop the things he should, but there is still a chance he disappears for a summer and develops a post game.

LeBron has to be on that team at this point.

 

False. LeBron has had multiple seasons that rival Jordan's best season. No, no rings. That's an entirely separate issue. But LeBron is most certainly NOT an underachiever.

If that sequence alone isn't enough to inspire LeBron to lock himself in a gym all summer until he emerges with a spin move, a jump hook, and a Jordan-eseque fallaway, then he's the biggest waste of talent in NBA history. You know at the car wash when they offer the "everything" package? That's what God gave LeBron. He's threatening to waste it. In a nutshell, this is what makes us so angry about him. It's not The Decision, or his lack of self-awareness, or the fact that he's a front-runner … it's that he's blowing the "everything" car-wash package. You see an athlete get handed the "everything" package maybe only five times in your life.)

 

I wouldn't say hes one of the biggest underachievers of the last 20 years but he definitely is underachieving to some extent.

Edited June 20, 201114 yr by WHarris1

False. LeBron has had multiple seasons that rival Jordan's best season. No, no rings. That's an entirely separate issue. But LeBron is most certainly NOT an underachiever.

Heck. If you're going to add Lebron then you'll have to add a slew of other guys who never won a title like Barkley, Stockton, and Malone.