I'm curious about this and what many of you think since many of you pay a lot more attention than I do.

 

IIRC, so KW interviews Oz I dunno, around the end of '03 and decides to take a chance on him. So '04 comes along, Ozzie settles in and then prior to '05 KW wants to go all in on smallball/smartball/Ozzieball whatever you want to call it which, at the time, did bring him a fair amount of ridicule. That and some then-eye-raising signings like Dye (too injured!), Pods (same!) and Iguchi (who?!). But Ozzie was on board the whole way and lo and behold in just his second season, bang.

 

Everybody's happy. What a perfect pair, right?

 

2006 was cruising along until the ASB and then went over a cliff (which still astounds me, but that's another thread).

 

For me personally the first crack appeared during the Soxfest where KW appeared to throw Ozzie under the bus for Thome not coming back. Ozzie seemed surprised by that and that's when I first thought: WTF is going on? Why would he do that?

 

And it's of course been downhill from there.

 

Or was it the whole Oney tweeting/firing?

 

Or is it simply that when the team continues to fail, they both started fingering each other? And going to Daddy (JR) about it?

Edited September 21, 201114 yr by LVSoxFan

Thome vs. Kotsay.

The MLB Network show bloated egos to the point of disrepair.

Thome vs. Kotsay.

 

Aha! You may be right there, and that would explain the Thome incident.

 

And, it would explain why after the Kotsay year what did KW bring in? A very Thome-type DH.

 

Well done! I like that answer.

 

The MLB Network show bloated egos to the point of disrepair.

 

I never saw the show (didn't have cable) but wouldn't that be something?

 

It seems every "couple" that does a reality show ruins their relationship. Why should KW/Ozzie be different?

 

I think the seed was planted before Day One with Jerry pushing Ozzie onto Kenny when KW wanted Cito.

I think the seed was planted before Day One with Jerry pushing Ozzie onto Kenny when KW wanted Cito.

 

OK this I did not know.

 

I thought that KW was the one convincing JR that Ozzie was the guy. Do tell!

OK this I did not know.

 

I thought that KW was the one convincing JR that Ozzie was the guy. Do tell!

 

Kenny wanted to hire Cito Gaston. The rumor at the time was that he wanted too much money, so JR forced Kenny to interview Ozzie.

Interesting.

 

I Googled the news from back then and found this:

 

Ozzie Guillen is back with the Chicago White Sox, this time as the team’s manager.

 

The three-time All-Star shortstop was hired Monday to replace Jerry Manuel, who was fired Sept. 29 after the White Sox failed to reach the playoffs for the second straight year.

 

Guillen has no managerial experience and has spent the past two seasons as the third-base coach for the Florida Marlins. But he made it clear how badly he wanted this job, and his passion won over general manager Kenny Williams and owner Jerry Reinsdorf.

 

Former Toronto manager Cito Gaston was thought to be the initial favorite for the job. Williams played for him, and he led the Blue Jays to World Series titles in 1992 and 1993.

 

But in the end, the White Sox went with one of their own.

 

I thought the part I bolded was very interesting, considering our recent history. The plot thickens!

The first time Freddy Garcia left

I am about 90% sure that some insider stuff was spilled on Soxtalk in regards to that.

Freddy Garcia? What's the summary on what was spilled on that?

Freddy Garcia? What's the summary on what was spilled on that?

 

I meant the Cito/Ozzie thing. Sorry!

Interesting.

 

I Googled the news from back then and found this:

 

Ozzie Guillen is back with the Chicago White Sox, this time as the team’s manager.

 

The three-time All-Star shortstop was hired Monday to replace Jerry Manuel, who was fired Sept. 29 after the White Sox failed to reach the playoffs for the second straight year.

 

Guillen has no managerial experience and has spent the past two seasons as the third-base coach for the Florida Marlins. But he made it clear how badly he wanted this job, and his passion won over general manager Kenny Williams and owner Jerry Reinsdorf.

 

Former Toronto manager Cito Gaston was thought to be the initial favorite for the job. Williams played for him, and he led the Blue Jays to World Series titles in 1992 and 1993.

 

But in the end, the White Sox went with one of their own.

 

 

I thought the part I bolded was very interesting, considering our recent history. The plot thickens!

 

 

 

I think folks may have forgotten the Sox wanting to "Go with their Own" and develop that Sox pride. That still might come into play with Reinsdorf when considering Ozzie and KW both for 2012 and beyond. Look at the coaching staff also when thinking of the direction given by Reinsdorf and then quoted by KW. Was that decision a failure? Not necessarily but there were some bad personnel moves and even worse direction given on how to pursure players and how much they were willing to pay out. Not many, including me, were upset about Jerry opening the purse strings.

Edited September 21, 201114 yr by elrockinMT

If they are both still here in 2012 I will be floored.

I think it really exploded when Ozzie's kid was not picked up early by the Sox in the 2010 player draft and was left to plummet.

 

Even openly in the Press, KW and Ozzie admitted that things had never gotten like that between them before.

ozzie's mad because they didn't let nepotism force them into making a bad draft pick

ozzie's mad because they didn't let nepotism force them into making a bad draft pick

And because they've done exactly that before...with the Williams kids.

Well that's true.

Whenever Ozzie's wife yelled at KW in the parking lot. That's when it started.

I think the seed was planted before Day One with Jerry pushing Ozzie onto Kenny when KW wanted Cito.

I agree. The draft thing with Ozzie's son made the rift complete I think.

Edited September 21, 201114 yr by SI1020

Well okay but that's b.s. and unprofessional. Now he's insisting the Sox do favors for his family just because he's him.

 

I remember this, and if Ozzie's kid was any good they would have PICKED him--why wouldn't they want to have a Guillen in their minors?

 

On that count, I have to side with KW.

Well okay but that's b.s. and unprofessional. Now he's insisting the Sox do favors for his family just because he's him.

 

I remember this, and if Ozzie's kid was any good they would have PICKED him--why wouldn't they want to have a Guillen in their minors?

 

On that count, I have to side with KW.

I'd say its more complicated than that...Ozzie's kid was actually projected to go in the top 10 rounds or so, but what wound up happening 2 years in a row (I think) is that no franchise has wanted to deal with the "Ozzie problem" in their organization. So in 2010, he plummeted until after round 20 where the Sox finally gave up and picked him but didn't sign him, and I don't even think he was drafted this year.

And because they've done exactly that before...with the Williams kids.

 

Well to be fair, the last time they drafted one of Ozzie's kids he didnt exactly leave on the best of circumstances. They drafted Carrie Schueler for the love of god, nepotism doesnt really matter here. Carrie however didnt get a twitter account and start making comments about front office personnel's dinner companions.

 

 

What would be the "Ozzie problem" to which you refer?