Worst Farm System in Baseball

[southsider2k5]

Why shouldn't hard slotting happen? I can only see good coming from it.

 

From the sounds of it, the vast majority of items have already been agreed to behind the scenes, and this one isn't big enough to stop the CBA from happening for. The consensus seems to be a luxury tax on high spending teams instead of hard slotting.

[Chicago White Sox]

Because:

 

1. Several of the teams with high revenues like having the small market teams unwilling/unable to compete for big money players. I don't think the Angels are mad about Jared Weaver falling to them because of signability.

 

2. The players don't want limits to signing revenue to decrease the earnings of the new players coming in.

Obviously I know why the players don't want hard slotting, but your first reason doesn't cut it. There are more teams that would benefit from hard slotting than teams currently taking advantage of the system. From a parity standpoint, hard slotting is a must. Sure, if you're a Red Sox, Tigers, or Cubs fan, you want to keep the current system. However, the poster who said there shouldn't be hard slotting is a White Sox fan, so his claim makes zero sense.

[Chicago White Sox]

From the sounds of it, the vast majority of items have already been agreed to behind the scenes, and this one isn't big enough to stop the CBA from happening for. The consensus seems to be a luxury tax on high spending teams instead of hard slotting.

Oh I've heard that it's probably not going to happen, I'm just disputing the claim that the previous poster made that it shouldn't. He made it sound like hard slotting would be bad, which makes no sense to me, especially for a White Sox fan.

[DirtySox]

Obviously I know why the players don't want hard slotting, but your first reason doesn't cut it. There are more teams that would benefit from hard slotting than teams currently taking advantage of the system. From a parity standpoint, hard slotting is a must. Sure, if you're a Red Sox, Tigers, or Cubs fan, you want to keep the current system. However, the poster who said there shouldn't be hard slotting is a White Sox fan, so his claim makes zero sense.

 

I'm also a fan of baseball and not just the White Sox. Hard-slotting hurts small market teams that aren't able to lure the big time free agents. Teams like the Rays, Royals, and Pirates realize that it's absolutely necessary to be able to develop their own players and they spend accordingly to make up for other deficiencies they can't control as much. I'd rather not see that taken away from them.

 

It also pushes multi-sport and certain prep talent away from the draft if bonuses are set in stone.

 

Hard-slotting is widely viewed by almost everyone as a terrible hindrance of an idea. It might be good for the thrifty White Sox, but it's awful for the rest of baseball.

Edited November 1, 2011 by DirtySox

[witesoxfan]

I'm also a fan of baseball and not just the White Sox. Hard-slotting hurts small market teams that aren't able to lure the big time free agents. Teams like the Rays, Royals, and Pirates realize that it's absolutely necessary to be able to develop their own players and they spend accordingly to make up for other deficiencies they can't control as much. I'd rather not see that taken away from them.

 

It also pushes multi-sport and certain prep talent away from the draft if bonuses are set in stone.

 

Hard-slotting is widely viewed by almost everyone as a terrible hindrance of an idea. It might be good for the thrifty White Sox, but it's awful for the rest of baseball.

 

That is exactly it. Baseball is such a crapshoot draft that to expect any results out of it, you really have to spend between $8-15 million, and there are teams that are going above and beyond that. One of the reasons the White Sox don't do this is because they have been burned by big signing bonuses in the past. It's actually a stupid reason because that kind of stuff simply happens, but it's true (it's also why they generally don't hand out big free agent contracts...Reinsdorf has opened the purse strings a bit in the past 5 years and it has bit him squarely on the ass, so I expect him to reign it in a bit over the next 5). There is also the idea that Selig has in mind for slotting, and Reinsdorf has done quite a bit to stay within that, which is dumb from a business perspective because if you are the only one following the rules and it isn't unethical to break the rules, then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

[iamshack]

I'm also a fan of baseball and not just the White Sox. Hard-slotting hurts small market teams that aren't able to lure the big time free agents. Teams like the Rays, Royals, and Pirates realize that it's absolutely necessary to be able to develop their own players and they spend accordingly to make up for other deficiencies they can't control as much. I'd rather not see that taken away from them.

 

It also pushes multi-sport and certain prep talent away from the draft if bonuses are set in stone.

 

Hard-slotting is widely viewed by almost everyone as a terrible hindrance of an idea. It might be good for the thrifty White Sox, but it's awful for the rest of baseball.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the small market teams are not competing, they will be able to compensate for this by having higher draft picks. Meanwhile, the big market teams will not be drafting kids later in the rounds that fell for signability reasons.

 

 

[NorthSideSox72]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the small market teams are not competing, they will be able to compensate for this by having higher draft picks. Meanwhile, the big market teams will not be drafting kids later in the rounds that fell for signability reasons.

I agree. Hard slotting helps small market teams a lot more than it hurts them.

 

[southsider2k5]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the small market teams are not competing, they will be able to compensate for this by having higher draft picks. Meanwhile, the big market teams will not be drafting kids later in the rounds that fell for signability reasons.

 

That's how I see it. It helps even more if they get the world wide draft included in that.

[DirtySox]

I agree. Hard slotting helps small market teams a lot more than it hurts them.

 

You are in the absolute minority that thinks that. 95% of baseball hates the idea. This is not hyperbole. It's why hard-slotting isn't even close to becoming reality. Thankfully.

[DirtySox]

That is exactly it. Baseball is such a crapshoot draft that to expect any results out of it, you really have to spend between $8-15 million, and there are teams that are going above and beyond that. One of the reasons the White Sox don't do this is because they have been burned by big signing bonuses in the past. It's actually a stupid reason because that kind of stuff simply happens, but it's true (it's also why they generally don't hand out big free agent contracts...Reinsdorf has opened the purse strings a bit in the past 5 years and it has bit him squarely on the ass, so I expect him to reign it in a bit over the next 5). There is also the idea that Selig has in mind for slotting, and Reinsdorf has done quite a bit to stay within that, which is dumb from a business perspective because if you are the only one following the rules and it isn't unethical to break the rules, then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

 

Spot on.

 

Luckily hard-slotting isn't even remotely close to becoming a reality. A tax for exceeding some sort of bonus cap/ceiling is a much better idea.

[bigruss]

You are in the absolute minority that thinks that. 95% of baseball hates the idea. This is not hyperbole. It's why hard-slotting isn't even close to becoming reality. Thankfully.

Then baseball is full of morons.

[DirtySox]

Then baseball is full of morons.

 

Insightful.

[bigruss]

Insightful.

If you look at the economics/baseball reasoning that you provided then it's fairly obvious they are morons.

[LittleHurt05]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the small market teams are not competing, they will be able to compensate for this by having higher draft picks. Meanwhile, the big market teams will not be drafting kids later in the rounds that fell for signability reasons.

 

Exactly. I have a hard time understanding how hard slotting can be considered a bad thing.

[southsider2k5]

Exactly. I have a hard time understanding how hard slotting can be considered a bad thing.

 

Honestly it is one of the few things that the NBA has done right. It works really well for them by getting superstars into markets that need them through the draft.

[DirtySox]

If you look at the economics/baseball reasoning that you provided then it's fairly obvious they are morons.

 

Feel free to expound. Though the issue is about dead via the CBA anyway.

[southsider2k5]

Feel free to expound. Though the issue is about dead via the CBA anyway.

 

What is there to expound on? Low budget teams have to pass on guys with the highest demands, even if they are the best players. That's why we see so many players drop because of "signability issues" to teams like Boston and New York who have no problems meeting their bonus demands. In a hard slot, they are locked into a price, so it won't matter. If they drop in the draft, it gets worse dollarwise, so the incentive would be to go to the first team that wanted you, and not to create outrageous demands to move.

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

I'm also a fan of baseball and not just the White Sox. Hard-slotting hurts small market teams that aren't able to lure the big time free agents. Teams like the Rays, Royals, and Pirates realize that it's absolutely necessary to be able to develop their own players and they spend accordingly to make up for other deficiencies they can't control as much. I'd rather not see that taken away from them.

 

It also pushes multi-sport and certain prep talent away from the draft if bonuses are set in stone.

 

Hard-slotting is widely viewed by almost everyone as a terrible hindrance of an idea. It might be good for the thrifty White Sox, but it's awful for the rest of baseball.

 

Can't the large market teams do the same thing in drafting that they do in free agency? If there are a lot of potential "unsignable" players in a draft, can't the Yankees/Red Sox let it leak that their draft budget this year has been upped by X amount of dollars, more than the Pirates or Rays could afford. I'm sure the agents know where the money is every year, and I could see a few top players being "bought" this way too, just like free agency.

[bigruss]

What is there to expound on? Low budget teams have to pass on guys with the highest demands, even if they are the best players. That's why we see so many players drop because of "signability issues" to teams like Boston and New York who have no problems meeting their bonus demands. In a hard slot, they are locked into a price, so it won't matter. If they drop in the draft, it gets worse dollarwise, so the incentive would be to go to the first team that wanted you, and not to create outrageous demands to move.

 

 

Can't the large market teams do the same thing in drafting that they do in free agency? If there are a lot of potential "unsignable" players in a draft, can't the Yankees/Red Sox let it leak that their draft budget this year has been upped by X amount of dollars, more than the Pirates or Rays could afford. I'm sure the agents know where the money is every year, and I could see a few top players being "bought" this way too, just like free agency.

And thank you.

 

Leaving it open to the market to decide the price of a player makes it the competitive advantage of the teams in larger markets who have more money.

 

The point of the order of the draft is to help balance out the talent level by infusing the bad teams with "better" young talent. Players should not be dropping because of money.

Edited November 1, 2011 by bigruss22

[iamshack]

Feel free to expound. Though the issue is about dead via the CBA anyway.

Teams like the Pirates and Royals spend a lot more on the draft than a team like the White Sox because they are drafting players in the first two rounds or so and paying the big bonuses because they have to. Meanwhile, the White Sox are singing the signable guy at slot because JR is Bud's pal.

 

But outside of those first few rounds, the small market teams aren't signing anyone that that is falling for signability reasons.

 

This same exact thing could be accomplished for less money by instituting a hard slot.

[DirtySox]

What is there to expound on? Low budget teams have to pass on guys with the highest demands, even if they are the best players. That's why we see so many players drop because of "signability issues" to teams like Boston and New York who have no problems meeting their bonus demands. In a hard slot, they are locked into a price, so it won't matter. If they drop in the draft, it gets worse dollarwise, so the incentive would be to go to the first team that wanted you, and not to create outrageous demands to move.

 

If you haven't been paying attention, the low budget teams that are passing on players with high demands are largely low budget in merely the draft. See the White Sox. Other than the Red Sox and Yankees, teams that need a competitive advantage in any way possible are exactly the teams picking and signing these falling players. See Pirates, Nationals, Rays, Blue Jays, and Royals. Hard-slotting will hinder the teams smart enough to take advantage of this market inefficiency (primarily the teams that need this advantage the most) and level the playing field for teams that have the resources but are too cheap/and or stupid to utilize them on amateur talent.

[southsider2k5]

Honestly in my view, a hard slot with a world wide draft is the biggest thing that could bring some semblance of parody back to baseball. That way the worst team would have first dibs at the top players in the world. The system now just rewards the rich teams at every level.

 

International free agents, international prospects, and national prospects are all dominated by the highest spending teams. If you break up that monopoly, even in one or two of those levels, it can level the playing field for the KCs and Pittsburghs of the world.

[southsider2k5]

If you haven't been paying attention, the low budget teams that are passing on players with high demands are largely low budget in merely the draft. See the White Sox. Other than the Red Sox and Yankees, teams that need a competitive advantage in any way possible are exactly the teams picking and signing these falling players. See Pirates, Nationals, Rays, Blue Jays, and Royals. Hard-slotting will hinder the teams smart enough to take advantage of this market inefficiency (primarily the teams that need this advantage the most) and level the playing field for teams that have the resources but are too cheap/and or stupid to utilize them on amateur talent.

 

The highest spending teams are the ones creating the pricing model for draft picks. They are the ones creating the inefficiencies.

[bigruss]

Honestly in my view, a hard slot with a world wide draft is the biggest thing that could bring some semblance of parody back to baseball. That way the worst team would have first dibs at the top players in the world. The system now just rewards the rich teams at every level.

 

International free agents, international prospects, and national prospects are all dominated by the highest spending teams. If you break up that monopoly, even in one or two of those levels, it can level the playing field for the KCs and Pittsburghs of the world.

And teams will still have the ability to choose who they want and have a competitive advantage in scouting, which I would much prefer to see rather than it being about money.

 

Teams would also be able to plan out expenses better.

[iamshack]

If you haven't been paying attention, the low budget teams that are passing on players with high demands are largely low budget in merely the draft. See the White Sox. Other than the Red Sox and Yankees, teams that need a competitive advantage in any way possible are exactly the teams picking and signing these falling players. See Pirates, Nationals, Rays, Blue Jays, and Royals. Hard-slotting will hinder the teams smart enough to take advantage of this market inefficiency (primarily the teams that need this advantage the most) and level the playing field for teams that have the resources but are too cheap/and or stupid to utilize them on amateur talent.

The small market teams need to be at a competitive advantage versus the large market teams, not a disadvantage or equal. The only way to do that is by draft position.

 

Other than signing their first 1 or 2 overall draft picks, the small market teams are not exactly taking chances on guys in the 6th round that are not expected to sign and throwing huge dollars at them.