Happy Bank Transfer Day!

[Balta1701]

Price changes should have happened. They didn't, just like was said. The economic conditions didn't change during this process. Durbin just lied to everyone so he could pass profits to one group over another, and in the end, he is costing consumers more money in the middle of a recession. Which is exactly what he was told would happen.

Well, first of all I'll express surprise that you so casually admit that capitalism doesn't work. I never would have guessed that Adam Smith would finally be proven wrong by Dick Durbin.

[StrangeSox]

It's unreasonable, yes, but not illegal. Thankfully we have a free market where competition can choose to do the exact opposite and become a more attractive offer for our/your business.

 

...which is exactly what's happening now that the fees are upfront and consumers actually have a choice.

[southsider2k5]

Well, first of all I'll express surprise that you so casually admit that capitalism doesn't work. I never would have guessed that Adam Smith would finally be proven wrong by Dick Durbin.

 

[southsider2k5]

...which is exactly what's happening now that the fees are upfront and consumers actually have a choice.

 

No more of a choice than they had before according to B

[Balta1701]

"A monopoly granted either to an individual or to a trading company has the same effect as a secret in trade or manufactures. The monopolists, by keeping the market constantly understocked, by never fully supplying the effectual demand, sell their commodities much above the natural price, and raise their emoluments, whether they consist in wages or profit, greatly above their natural rate. The price of monopoly is upon every occasion the highest which can be got. The natural price, or the price of free competition, on the contrary, is the lowest which can be taken, not upon every occasion, indeed, but for any considerable time together. The one is upon every occasion the highest which can be squeezed out of the buyers, or which, it is supposed, they will consent to give: the other is the lowest which the sellers can commonly afford to take, and at the same time continue their business."

[southsider2k5]

[Balta1701]

No more of a choice than they had before according to B

yes you do, that's the whole point of having the fee go from hidden to transparent!

[StrangeSox]

No more of a choice than they had before according to B

 

Remember when all those people started leaving BoA and then they dropped the fee?

[southsider2k5]

yes you do, that's the whole point of having the fee go from hidden to transparent!

 

But everyone in every single industry is a monopoly, costs didn't drop, so hidden or transparent, you don't have a choice, is the argument you have put up here.

[southsider2k5]

Remember when all those people started leaving BoA and then they dropped the fee?

 

Doesn't matter, cash and other banks carry fees according to Balta, and so every single industry in the US is a monopoly, so there is no way around the fees, ever.

[StrangeSox]

Doesn't matter, cash and other banks carry fees according to Balta, and so every single industry in the US is a monopoly, so there is no way around the fees, ever.

 

f***.

 

edit: But really, though, credit cards are an oligopolistic industry, and this bill pushed these fees out to the consumer and lead, rather quickly, to their being dropped altogether. You can say that the banks will just find another way to extract wealth from the productive sectors of the economy and there's no way around their vampire-like tactics, but that's really an indictment of banks, not of limiting their abilities to charge a certain fee that is largely hidden from consumers.

Edited November 7, 2011 by StrangeSox

[Balta1701]

Doesn't matter, cash and other banks carry fees according to Balta, and so every single industry in the US is a monopoly, so there is no way around the fees, ever.

If the fee is not charged to me, then of course there's no way around it! What the Hell man? How on Earth am I going to avoid a fee charged to a retailer that the retailer is forbidden from passing directly on to me? There's zero incentive for me to avoid that fee if the fee cannot be passed on to me directly.

 

The only way for me to decide whether to pay a fee or not is to have me know about it...to have it be visible.

[southsider2k5]

f***.

 

edit: But really, though, credit cards are an oligopolistic industry, and this bill pushed these fees out to the consumer and lead, rather quickly, to their being dropped altogether. You can say that the banks will just find another way to extract wealth from the productive sectors of the economy and there's no way around their vampire-like tactics, but that's really an indictment of banks, not of limiting their abilities to charge a certain fee that is largely hidden from consumers.

 

If Durbin is really that worried about it, he needs to be after the SEC fees, which pre-date by decades, any electronic banking fees.

[Y2HH]

Remember when all those people started leaving BoA and then they dropped the fee?

 

Most of those people unwittingly did BOA a favor, unfortunately.

[Balta1701]

If Durbin is really that worried about it, he needs to be after the SEC fees, which pre-date by decades, any electronic banking fees.

Where is the line on my receipt that says "$.44 debit card fee"?

 

I can easily find receipts for stock transactions showing SEC fees, tallied exactly, from 25 years ago.

[Balta1701]

Most of those people unwittingly did BOA a favor, unfortunately.

BofA is not being done any favors by losing deposits.

[Y2HH]

BofA is not being done any favors by losing deposits.

 

Actually you are quite wrong on this.

[southsider2k5]

Where is the line on my receipt that says "$.44 debit card fee"?

 

I can easily find receipts for stock transactions showing SEC fees, tallied exactly, from 25 years ago.

 

Which is illegal today.

[JorgeFabregas]

I've been a member of a credit union for 15 years. My wife and I have had smaller accounts with commercial banks since getting married 6 years ago. There is no comparison between the experiences. The credit union provides quicker access to your money (so far as I can tell, you can deposit a check of any amount at an ATM and instantly have access to those funds), doesn't have any minimum balance amounts for free checking, has lower overdraft fees, etc. My credit union is based in the Chicago suburbs and we moved to Saint Louis over a year ago. That's still our main account, as there have been ATMs where we can make deposits within walking distance of both places we have lived in Saint Louis thanks to co-op networks. The national bank chain that we have account with (and are closing) has no place to make deposits unless we drive into Illinois.

[Y2HH]

It's pretty apparent that most of you don't understand how big banks make their big money, so I'll give you a hint: It's not on mom and pop accounts with revolving deposits of a few thousand (or even just mere hundreds of dollars). Actually, if anything, these small revolving accounts tend to cost banks money, because it causes them to have to hire staff to support the account, online, and in person. By law they have to accept and support them, but that doesn't mean they "want" them.

[Y2HH]

I've been a member of a credit union for 15 years. My wife and I have had smaller accounts with commercial banks since getting married 6 years ago. There is no comparison between the experiences. The credit union provides quicker access to your money (so far as I can tell, you can deposit a check of any amount at an ATM and instantly have access to those funds), doesn't have any minimum balance amounts for free checking, has lower overdraft fees, etc. My credit union is based in the Chicago suburbs and we moved to Saint Louis over a year ago. That's still our main account, as there have been ATMs where we can make deposits within walking distance of both places we have lived in Saint Louis thanks to co-op networks. The national bank chain that we have account with (and are closing) has no place to make deposits unless we drive into Illinois.

 

I've thought about it, but frankly, I'm lazy when it comes to that. My "bank" account is nothing more than a "bill pay" account I use to pay bills online...I store absolutely zero savings there.

[Y2HH]

For the record, I'm no fan of what these big banks have become, or even the small ones. There was a time when they actually paid a fair interest rate on the money they "borrowed" from their depositors in order to lend it out for an albeit higher interest rate of their own. Today, they borrow your money for almost nothing (less than nothing in many cases since they charge various fees for using their services), turn around and lend it out at an interest rate of at LEAST 5% on most items.

 

And our government backed them when they screwed it up over greed, and bailed them out because they convinced the world it was "for the peoples sake". Let's not even get into the fact that the government meant to protect us helped create the possibility of the scenario that took place to begin with.

 

I guess I should be more angry than I am, but the banks aren't really doing anything the government or various other institutions aren't doing, which is nickle and diming the people into oblivion. Oh, and if/when they screw up, they'll ask those same people to help them out...and when we do, they'll turn around and thank us by adding more fees (or taxes in the case of the government) and tell us it's for our own good.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Y2HH

[southsider2k5]

Where is the line on my receipt that says "$.44 debit card fee"?

 

I can easily find receipts for stock transactions showing SEC fees, tallied exactly, from 25 years ago.

 

And by this standard, the fee is still hidden, because I have no receipts or bank statements that show this fee.

[Balta1701]

For the record, I'm no fan of what these big banks have become, or even the small ones. There was a time when they actually paid a fair interest rate on the money they "borrowed" from their depositors in order to lend it out for an albeit higher interest rate of their own. Today, they borrow your money for almost nothing (less than nothing in many cases since they charge various fees for using their services), turn around and lend it out at an interest rate of at LEAST 5% on most items.

Again, wait a second...yes, there was a time when banks would pay out 5-10% interest on savings, but at the same time, they were also getting 15% rates on mortgages. The decline in long term interest rates has been an effort of the federal reserve. Has the gap between interest paid out and rates charged significantly? In 1980, mortgage rates sat at around 18%, and savings rates sat at 10%, so I certainly wouldn't say that the gap there has changed.

[Texsox]

Lucky me, I was a borrow when rates were high and a saver when rates are low.