I am trying to keep pitchers into the discussion. Taking 150 games for a starter, can they have 15 bad games? 30? For a starting pitcher 3 outings where they are out by the fourth? Six?

 

Clearly Dunn surpassed any number last season, but what are fair expectations?

I am trying to keep pitchers into the discussion. Taking 150 games for a starter, can they have 15 bad games? 30? For a starting pitcher 3 outings where they are out by the fourth? Six?

 

Clearly Dunn surpassed any number last season, but what are fair expectations?

 

If your name is Juan Pierre ... two bad games make you a failure.

Edited April 17, 201214 yr by greg775

If your name is Juan Pierre ... two bad games make you a failure.

If your name is Juan Pierre ... two bad games make you a failure.

Apparently 1,290 at bats of a .656 OPS was not enough, either. The precipitous decline in base-running and fielding abilities apparently also mattered not.

Apparently 1,290 at bats of a .656 OPS was not enough, either. The precipitous decline in base-running and fielding abilities apparently also mattered not.

 

I still don't understand how OPS is a particularly relevant statistic for a lead-off hitter who doesn't hit home runs.

 

Wouldn't Runs Created be more relevant?

 

Anyway, I wouldn't argue that Pierre was in decline, but OPS seems like exactly the wrong metric to use to describe his output - at any point in his career.

Edited April 17, 201214 yr by Greg Hibbard

IMO- the number of bad games aren't as important as the number of bad games in a row.

 

You can have a bad day at the plate every odd day if you're killing it the even ones.

What's their job on a team?

 

If a guy is getting paid $25 million to carry an offense/pitching staff on a contending team, there's not a lot of leeway, the guy better be Halladaying it.

 

If a guy is a 25 year old on a rebuilding team, then my answer is completely different.

7 and a half

What's their job on a team?

 

If a guy is getting paid $25 million to carry an offense/pitching staff on a contending team, there's not a lot of leeway, the guy better be Halladaying it.

 

If a guy is a 25 year old on a rebuilding team, then my answer is completely different.

 

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

By nature, to suck as a hitter, you have to fail more than 80% of the time, so... I'd say if there are defensive deficiencies included, the worst player would fail one way or another at least 82-85% of the time.

What's their job on a team?

 

If a guy is getting paid $25 million to carry an offense/pitching staff on a contending team, there's not a lot of leeway, the guy better be Halladaying it.

 

If a guy is a 25 year old on a rebuilding team, then my answer is completely different.

 

Of course but wouldn't "bad day" be relative for each of those players?

Of course but wouldn't "bad day" be relative for each of those players?

0/5 with 4ks is pretty much the same no matter how much you're getting paid.

0/5 with 4ks is pretty much the same no matter how much you're getting paid.

 

But the difference between the expectation and that is different. The 25 mil franchise player has a different expectation than the utility player, as you rightfully pointed out. So while we would consider .250 a solid season for a player developing, we wouldn't find that acceptable for the $25mil player. In other words a "bad day" for Konerko should be better than a bad day for (insert league min development project player). At some point yes, it's a bad day for either one. 1-4 leaving three runners stranded may be a bad day for Pujols, but an acceptable day for (fill in here) is my point.

I still don't understand how OPS is a particularly relevant statistic for a lead-off hitter who doesn't hit home runs.

 

Wouldn't Runs Created be more relevant?

 

Anyway, I wouldn't argue that Pierre was in decline, but OPS seems like exactly the wrong metric to use to describe his output - at any point in his career.

 

He never got on base enough for a leadoff hitter. Add on the fact that he hit almost nothing but singles...well you have yourself a crappy offensive player.

Edited April 18, 201214 yr by chw42