Viciedo Not Worth The Wait

[caulfield12]

Not young enough to make up for the descrepancy in numbers.

 

 

And if it came out that Rick Hahn was 90% of the driving force behind this signing, would you still be going on and on about Viciedo like this?

 

It's almost like you are unhappy he's been playing well recently since it doesn't support your hypothesis.

 

 

Maybe it's time to go back to the "If Molina doesn't crack the starting rotation in 2013, KW must be fired!" strategy.

 

Because if you were GM, Santos would have netted you, wala.....a young Pujols, Cabrera and Fielder in the same trade.

 

And Quentin would have brought back a Kemp or Josh Hamilton, surely.

 

 

[Marty34]

Can you please plot for me the appropriate relationship between how young a person is relative to average for a particular level and how far above average their performance needs to be to satisfy you.

 

Any way you plot it, Vlad Guerrero he isn't.

[Marty34]

And if it came out that Rick Hahn was 90% of the driving force behind this signing, would you still be going on and on about Viciedo like this?

 

It's almost like you are unhappy he's been playing well recently since it doesn't support your hypothesis.

 

 

Maybe it's time to go back to the "If Molina doesn't crack the starting rotation in 2013, KW must be fired!" strategy.

 

Because if you were GM, Santos would have netted you, wala.....a young Pujols, Cabrera and Fielder in the same trade.

 

And Quentin would have brought back a Kemp or Josh Hamilton, surely.

 

What are you suggesting with that Hahn comment?

[Balta1701]

Any way you plot it, Vlad Guerrero he isn't.

But for a 23 year old in the bigs, he's putting up a .781 OPS in May, his numbers are improving now that we stuck wtih him.

 

And the sky is the limit.

[Balta1701]

What are you suggesting with that Hahn comment?

That every single post you make and every single opinion you ever express can be explained fully by a desire to have KW fired, and you judge players performances solely through that frame of reference. Thus, if someone else had signed him, you'd love him because then KW wouldn't get any credit if he has success.

[ScottyDo]

Any way you plot it, Vlad Guerrero he isn't.

That's an odd standard. I know you're just responding to people comparing his play style to Vlad's (really, that's just because of aggressiveness, and he's changed his approach since then), but while we're on the subject of standards...what are yours? What level of performance is acceptable? You have not stated a standard for any player to live up to in any of your crusades against them, you've just said they're bad and you don't like them.

[Marty34]

That every single post you make and every single opinion you ever express can be explained fully by a desire to have KW fired, and you judge players performances solely through that frame of reference. Thus, if someone else had signed him, you'd love him because then KW wouldn't get any credit if he has success.

 

My desire to have Kenny Williams replaced is based largely on 1 post-season win in last 6 years.

[southsider2k5]

Can you please plot for me the appropriate relationship between how young a person is relative to average for a particular level and how far above average their performance needs to be to satisfy you.

 

Good luck with that.

[LittleHurt05]

Any way you plot it, Vlad Guerrero he isn't.

 

LOL, that's quite the standard. And Beckham isn't Ryne Sandberg, Morel isn't Mike Schmidt, Sale isn't Randy Johnson

[caulfield12]

My desire to have Kenny Williams replaced is based largely on 1 post-season win in last 6 years.

 

So would you also fire Ron Gardenhire for the reason they've only won one post-season series in a decade despite appearing 6 times and have gotten completely blitzed by the Yankees the last couple of times?

 

And because they're arguably the worst team in baseball right now, playing in a two-year old stadium.

 

(Here's where Marty has an out, he can say he would have fired the GM who made four incredibly bad trades, Bill Smith, which is actually what transpired...and that the field manager has very little to do with the results of the team and that JR should have emulated the Pohlads and axed KW).

Edited May 19, 2012 by caulfield12

[Marty34]

That's an odd standard. I know you're just responding to people comparing his play style to Vlad's (really, that's just because of aggressiveness, and he's changed his approach since then), but while we're on the subject of standards...what are yours? What level of performance is acceptable? You have not stated a standard for any player to live up to in any of your crusades against them, you've just said they're bad and you don't like them.

 

I think hs top side is a Carlos Lee/Nelson Cruz-type, solid everyday corner OF'er who you let go once you have to pay them. If he turns into Ordonez - a solid 3-hitter - I'm wrong.

[Marty34]

So would you also fire Ron Gardenhire for the reason they've only won one post-season series in a decade despite appearing 6 times and have gotten completely blitzed by the Yankees the last couple of times?

 

And because they're arguably the worst team in baseball right now, playing in a two-year old stadium.

 

(Here's where Marty has an out, he can say he would have fired the GM who made four incredibly bad trades, Bill Smith, which is actually what transpired...and that the field manager has very little to do with the results of the team and that JR should have emulated the Pohlads and axed KW).

 

What are you out to prove or disprove about me based on my answers to the ridiculous line of questioning on whether or not I would want person A gone because I want KW gone?

[Dick Allen]

What are you out to prove or disprove about me based on my answers to the ridiculous line of questioning on whether or not I would want person A gone because I want KW gone?

Don't you think the Sox should change GMs before they get rid of their better young players? The way you're wired, you will have the same issues with whatever they get back as you do with the current guys.

[Marty34]

Don't you think the Sox should change GMs before they get rid of their better young players? The way you're wired, you will have the same issues with whatever they get back as you do with the current guys.

 

How am I "wired", Dick? Do tell.

 

[Dick Allen]

How am I "wired", Dick? Do tell.

Its simple. If KW acquired them, they suck. That, and probably most of your posts are BS just to try to aggrevate people.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Marty34]

Its simple. If KW acquired them, they suck. That, and probably most of your posts are BS just to try to aggrevate people.

 

1 post-season win in 6 seasons, Dick. KW's record is what it is.

[Balta1701]

1 post-season win in 6 seasons, Dick. KW's record is what it is.

2 postseason appearances and 12 postseason wins in 7 seasons.

[Marty34]

2 postseason appearances and 12 postseason wins in 7 seasons.

 

That World Series was great, wasn't it.

[Balta1701]

That World Series was great, wasn't it.

Yes.

 

Now tell me why you get to draw the arbitrary dividing line right after it and say that nothing beforehand counts.

[Marty34]

Yes.

 

Now tell me why you get to draw the arbitrary dividing line right after it and say that nothing beforehand counts.

 

6 years isn't long enough? I mean, you want him to go through a rebuilding AFTER these 6 years, saying give him 2-3 years, we could be up to 9-1o years with 1 post-season win. That's just not going to cut it for a large market team.

[Dick Allen]

1 post-season win in 6 seasons, Dick. KW's record is what it is.

You have no bigger ally in the KW must go movement than me, while it is unfair to start judging from right after his team won the WS, his overall body of work still falls short. I believe its KW's job to put a team together that makes the playoffs. If he has bad coaches or a bad manager, that's his responsibility. Making the playoffs to me is his job. Once there, its a crapshoot, no matter what anyone argues. One play here or there can determine who moves on, and the GM has nothing to do with that at that particular point. It wasn't KW that made the ball go through Tony G's legs and Ichuchi homers for a White Sox win. It wasn't KW getting El Duque to somehow get out of that jam in Boston. If those don't happen, the Sox maybe don't get out of the first round, maybe in 2008, they catch a couple of breaks and win it all. I'm anticipating no playoffs this year, so that would be 2 times he's made it in 12 years. Once every 6. 5 teams in the division plus wild card, its not even average. Considering the advantages he's had in the AL Central most of his reign, its even worse. He inherited a team with Thomas, Konerko, Ordonez, Lee, Valentin, Crede, Durham, Buerhle, Garland, Foulke and supposedly the #1 farm system in baseball,as they say in elections are they better today than the day KW took over?

 

But he's not going anywhere, so you and I just have to live with it, and hope he does things better than he's been doing them. If they didn't fire him after last year, with the horrible year and the Ozzie feud, a year after he blew off Thome for $1 million and gave Manny $4 million for 2 RBI, a year after he stuck the ownership with Peavy and Rios' contracts, they aren't going to fire him for not winning when they cut the payroll $25 million, although change is coming fairly soon. Rick Hahn, another who I question, wouldn't be waiting around for nothing.

Edited May 19, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

The one thing from that 2009 list you can't hold against him is letting Thome walk, because that clearly wasn't his idea.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

I believe its KW's job to put a team together that makes the playoffs. If he has bad coaches or a bad manager, that's his responsibility.

Not with JR running the team.

[Dick Allen]

The one thing from that 2009 list you can't hold against him is letting Thome walk, because that clearly wasn't his idea.

It was Ozzie's idea, but he supposedly was Ozzie's boss. He eventually overrode him in September when he claimed a fresh off steroid suspension Manny, in what was perhaps the biggest waste of $4 million in his reign, and he's blown some money.

[Jake]

It was Ozzie's idea, but he supposedly was Ozzie's boss. He eventually overrode him in September when he claimed a fresh off steroid suspension Manny, in what was perhaps the biggest waste of $4 million in his reign, and he's blown some money.

 

I'm still not against that deal. Rolled the dice on one of the better hitters ever. Didn't work out. We were trying to win and obviously someone told KW we had $4 million to spend.