Soxfest thread

[southsider2k5]

Coop basically said that Erik Johnson is all but guaranteed a spot in the rotation next year. Nothing new, just reiterating what he said.

 

White Sox Talk ‏@WhiteSoxTalkCSN 1h

 

Don Cooper: "Erik Johnson is penciled in pretty firmly" for starting rotation this year.

[southsider2k5]

White Sox Talk ‏@WhiteSoxTalkCSN 1h

 

Don Cooper: "Erik Johnson is penciled in pretty firmly" for starting rotation this year.

 

Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN 1h

 

Coop also notes that Felipe Paulino has "a real good chance" at the rotation. #SoxFest

[southsider2k5]

Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN 1h

 

Ventura compared teaching players behind scenes to way raised kids. Doesn't feel appropriate to admonish kids in public. Same 4 players.

 

Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN 2h

 

Don Cooper names Lindstrom and Nate Jones as possible closers, says there's something about Daniel Webb he likes. #WhiteSox #SoxFest

[Vance Law]

I actually agree with Marty in a sense that I'm surprised Dunn hasn't been dumped yet just to appease the casual fan.

 

Based on your description, another term for 'casual fan' would be 'brain dead moron'. A smart GM obviously pays no attention to what, in your words, a 'casual fan' thinks.

 

[Vance Law]

I think the treatment of Dunn by the fans is frustration that he's still on the team and this is the way to get that message to management. Sox management must have thought there wasn't a problem otherwise he wouldn't be at the event.

 

 

It isn't 'the fans' it's a small collection of dumb meatheads who 1) don't understand baseball 2) failed to behave with the bare minimum of basic decency, forget about words like 'classy' or 'classless'. These are simply a small collection of sucky people, not 'the fans'.

 

 

[hi8is]

I think the treatment of Dunn by the fans is frustration that he's still on the team and this is the way to get that message to management. Sox management must have thought there wasn't a problem otherwise he wouldn't be at the event.

The point here is two fold in my eyes... One - it's sad that of all things to focus on and discuss, this came up and is getting attention. Two... One bad apple is not reflective of a culture. Anyone displaying this type of disrespect should get a refund, be shown the door, and put on a black list for Soxfest.

 

Freedom of speech is a right as is freedom to impose restrictions within an organization.

[hi8is]

It isn't 'the fans' it's a small collection of dumb meatheads who 1) don't understand baseball 2) failed to behave with the bare minimum of basic decency, forget about words like 'classy' or 'classless'. These are simply a small collection of sucky people, not 'the fans'.

+1

[The Ultimate Champion]

All of this would be TRUE if the White Sox had better DH options or anyone being blocked. In fact, Hahn and Reinsdorf decided to bring back Konerko when they could have given those at-bats to DeAza, for example, or Keppinger/Gillaspie (had they actually forced Paulie into retirement and dumped Dunn).

 

Are you really going to argue that Jared Mitchell or Trayce Thompson should be getting those DH at-bats against a RHP? Keppinger? Gillaspie? Leury Garcia? Jordan Danks?

 

Couldn't we also make the same argument about Jeff Keppinger (being booed/abysmal)? And, after all, Dunn put up one of the best OPS numbers on the team last year, it's not like he has been 2011 bad.

 

I'm guessing that Hahn and Co. still believe that they can get something back for Dunn at the deadline...if he has a putrid 2 or 3 months, at that point he'll be waived, but no sooner.

 

We still owe Keppinger $8.5 million for 2014 and 2015 and Dunn $15 million. There's a pretty good chance we can save $3-5 million on Dunn, if not $6 million and a marginal prospect.

 

 

 

 

The fact of the matter is that Dunn gives us a better chance to compete the first 2-3 months of the season hitting exclusively against RHP, better than DeAza does.

 

Now whether Hahn can get value back on Dunn, Keppinger, John Danks, DeAza, Gillaspie and Alexei Ramirez, we'll just have to wait and see. Obviously we had things go south with Floyd and Crain last year, but he still did a solid job maximizing the return on available assets over the last 9 months, all things considered.

 

 

 

 

 

FWIW, Adam Dunn will have made almost $113 million in his career by the of 2014.

1) Konerko coming back was first and foremost Jerry wanting Paulie to retire on his own terms. This is straight from Hahn's mouth. It's a great thing to do & Paulie's role as a mentor is being undervalued IMO given what he may be able to do for these guys. Dunn has nothing to do with any of this.

 

2) Those DH AB's should go to Viciedo, then DeAza gets LF full time, and the bench gets more playing time & can play a more versatile piece. This is child's play. Very simple.

 

3) No you can't make the same argument for Keppinger because he isn't a sunk cost. Again, the whole idea of a sunk cost is you're supposed to be able to remove the emotion from the situation, step back, look at your investment, and ask yourself if you should continue to sink $$$ into this thing - and make no mistake, ABs and playing time and development time IS $$$$ 100% and this is one of the few resources a rebuilding team has that a contending team does not, and pissing it away on Dunn is unbelievably wasteful and stupid. Keppinger OTOH does fill a role as a proven UT option which is necessary when you have so many uncertainties as position players.

 

4) Take away Keppinger's salary & take away Dunn's salary, and make both FAs right now. Do the Sox have interest in signing Dunn AT ALL? My guess 100% no. Do they have interest in Keppinger, at the right price? My guess is yes, they probably do. Maybe they wouldn't go above $1M but any team that has Jake Elmore & Leury Garcia as their primary bench UT guys probably has interest in someone like Kepp at the right price.

 

5) Let me ask you this, let's say Dunn is a FA right now. What do you think he signs for? $2M or more? I'd say it's probably $2M or less. That's 13.3% of his value and playing time. What do you think the Sox stand to gain from this? Again, sunk cost, he's been a bad investment. Move on. The fans are the market, they are your customers, you don't blame your market nor do you blame your customers for your own f***ups. The Sox made a good deal on paper that turned bad, ok whatever, turn the page. Keeping Dunn is a poor decision that makes the Sox look like emotional gamblers who can't stand up and walk away from the table.

Edited January 26, 2014 by The Ultimate Champion

[caulfield12]

1) Konerko coming back was first and foremost Jerry wanting Paulie to retire on his own terms. This is straight from Hahn's mouth. It's a great thing to do & Paulie's role as a mentor is being undervalued IMO given what he may be able to do for these guys. Dunn has nothing to do with any of this. 2) Those DH AB's should go to Viciedo, then DeAza gets LF full time, and the bench gets more playing time & can play a more versatile piece. This is child's play. Very simple. 3) No you can't make the same argument for Keppinger because he isn't a sunk cost. Again, the whole idea of a sunk cost is you're supposed to be able to remove the emotion from the situation, step back, look at your investment, and ask yourself if you should continue to sink $$ into this thing - and make no mistake, ABs and playing time and development time IS $$ 100% and this is one of the few resources a rebuilding team has that a contending team does not, and pissing it away on Dunn is unbelievably wasteful and stupid. Keppinger OTOH does fill a role as a proven UT option which is necessary when you have so many uncertainties as position players. 4) Take away Keppinger's salary & take away Dunn's salary, and make both FAs right now. Do the Sox have interest in signing Dunn AT ALL? My guess 100% no. Do they have interest in Keppinger, at the right price? My guess is yes, they probably do. Maybe they wouldn't go above $1M but any team that has Jake Elmore & Leury Garcia as their primary bench UT guys probably has interest in someone like Kepp at the right price. 5) Let me ask you this, let's say Dunn is a FA right now. What do you think he signs for? $2M or more? I'd say it's probably $2M or less. That's 13.3% of his value and playing time. What do you think the Sox stand to gain from this? Again, sunk cost, he's been a bad investment. Move on. The fans are the market, they are your customers, you don't blame your market nor do you blame your customers for your own f***ups. The Sox made a good deal on paper that turned bad, ok whatever, turn the page. Keeping Dunn is a poor decision that makes the Sox look like emotional gamblers who can't stand up and walk away from the table.

 

 

 

 

That would be true if KW was still the GM. But it's no longer the case, Hahn isn't seen as being connected with this signing, so what emotional factor or reason would keep him around? He's obviously not stupid. Unless you think there's a conspiracy in the front office not to dump Dunn so as to keep the spotlight off the Dunn acquisition and dumping/trading him would put a black mark in Williams' future in the game. Seriously, Williams made a lot of mistakes over the last half decade, Hahn can't protect him from that.

 

In the end, the person who most deserves to lose his job is Brooks Boyer or whoever in the PR department thought bringing Dunn to SoxFest would be a wise idea. They probably don't have Courtney Hawkins or Jared Mitchell there for the same reason/s. (Cue someone saying if they can't take some boos and jeers at SoxFest, they don't have what it takes to be MLB players and that it will motivate them to "try harder," even though trying harder in baseball has never been proven to work...nor has it been proven to make Adam Dunn wake up and decide to cut down to 4% body fat in the offseason).

 

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

That would be true if KW was still the GM. But it's no longer the case, Hahn isn't seen as being connected with this signing, so what emotional factor or reason would keep him around? He's obviously not stupid. Unless you think there's a conspiracy in the front office not to dump Dunn so as to keep the spotlight off the Dunn acquisition and dumping/trading him would put a black mark in Williams' future in the game. Seriously, Williams made a lot of mistakes over the last half decade, Hahn can't protect him from that.

 

In the end, the person who most deserves to lose his job is Brooks Boyer or whoever in the PR department thought bringing Dunn to SoxFest would be a wise idea. They probably don't have Courtney Hawkins or Jared Mitchell there for the same reason/s. (Cue someone saying if they can't take some boos and jeers at SoxFest, they don't have what it takes to be MLB players and that it will motivate them to "try harder," even though trying harder in baseball has never been proven to work...nor has it been proven to make Adam Dunn wake up and decide to cut down to 4% body fat in the offseason).

Conspiracy?

 

It's almost certainly the "we need to get something out of this guy" mentality that's stupid and emotional and generally harmful if not at least counterproductive in the end, and I'm honestly not sure how much Hahn himself has to do with any of that, nor Kenny Williams for that matter. This may be above both of those guys for all we know.

[southsider2k5]

That would be true if KW was still the GM. But it's no longer the case, Hahn isn't seen as being connected with this signing, so what emotional factor or reason would keep him around? He's obviously not stupid. Unless you think there's a conspiracy in the front office not to dump Dunn so as to keep the spotlight off the Dunn acquisition and dumping/trading him would put a black mark in Williams' future in the game. Seriously, Williams made a lot of mistakes over the last half decade, Hahn can't protect him from that.

 

In the end, the person who most deserves to lose his job is Brooks Boyer or whoever in the PR department thought bringing Dunn to SoxFest would be a wise idea. They probably don't have Courtney Hawkins or Jared Mitchell there for the same reason/s. (Cue someone saying if they can't take some boos and jeers at SoxFest, they don't have what it takes to be MLB players and that it will motivate them to "try harder," even though trying harder in baseball has never been proven to work...nor has it been proven to make Adam Dunn wake up and decide to cut down to 4% body fat in the offseason).

 

It is sad that Brooks Boyer has to assume that Sox fans are dicks.

[SI1020]

Yes, a person should be able to shout their opinion from the mountain tops... And then cry like a little b**** when anyone does it to them.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

I didn't see it as crying. I think his point (about the poster who called him out) was quite valid.