What nonsense.

 

(1) Atheism is a religion just as much as Christianity is a religion. I hate how Dawkins, et al., always refuse to see that.

 

They don't refuse to see it. It's simply not true.

Good thing he violated the school's No Weapons policy, eh?

 

Pepper spray is against the weapons policy? I'd think that pepper spray or mace would be fairly commonly possessed on college campuses, particularly by female students.

They don't refuse to see it. It's simply not true.

 

So it's not a subset of people who have specific beliefs about the nature and existence of humanity?

 

It doesn't fit the traditional definition involving the worship to God or the supernatural, but it fits pretty squarely with the more modern definition:

 

a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion

So it's not a subset of people who have specific beliefs about the nature and existence of humanity?

 

Not any more than people who don't believe in ghosts, or those who don't believe in aliens. It's a negative definition that tells us nothing about what those people do believe. They could be naturalists, or spiritualists, or Buddhists, or follow some sort of Pantheism, or Animism. Basically anything if it doesn't involve a god.

 

It doesn't fit the traditional definition involving the worship to God or the supernatural, but it fits pretty squarely with the more modern definition:

 

That's an absurdly broad definition that would include things like supporting gun rights, being strongly pro-choice, or being a White Sox fanatic.

a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

 

I think the definition is a part of the problem. Everybody has some system of beliefs, but in both atheism as well as in deistic belief systems, there are large degrees of variance to which people hold to them with ardor and faith.

 

There are atheists who don't believe in the existence of God but don't spend any time dwelling on or discussing the issue. Then there are atheists who join atheist groups and make it a point to argue with every single deist they know. The latter group are definitely part of a religion.

Not any more than people who don't believe in ghosts, or those who don't believe in aliens. It's a negative definition that tells us nothing about what those people do believe. They could be naturalists, or spiritualists, or Buddhists, or follow some sort of Pantheism, or Animism. Basically anything if it doesn't involve a god.

 

 

 

That's an absurdly broad definition that would include things like supporting gun rights, being strongly pro-choice, or being a White Sox fanatic.

 

Not really, it's still within the realm of the origin/purpose/existence of humanity.

I think the definition is a part of the problem. Everybody has some system of beliefs, but in both atheism as well as in deistic belief systems, there are large degrees of variance to which people hold to them with ardor and faith.

 

There are atheists who don't believe in the existence of God but don't spend any time dwelling on or discussing the issue. Then there are atheists who join atheist groups and make it a point to argue with every single deist they know. The latter group are definitely part of a religion.

 

Right, like Dawkins.

Not really, it's still within the realm of the origin/purpose/existence of humanity.

 

Atheism doesn't say a thing about any of those 3 issues.

 

Self-described atheists *tend* to defer to science on the issue of humanity's origins, but science is not a religion either.

They don't refuse to see it. It's simply not true.

well Dawkins and the New Atheist movement do tend to approach their atheism with a sort of zealotry that's just a mirror image of the religious fundamentalism they typically broke away from.

 

edit: but #notallatheists are represented by the Dawkins class.

Edited June 9, 201411 yr by StrangeSox

Atheism doesn't say a thing about any of those 3 issues.

 

Self-described atheists *tend* to defer to science on the issue of humanity's origins, but science is not a religion either.

 

How is "I don't believe in deities and reject the notion of creative design because science" not a position about the origin/nature/existence of humanity?

 

I think you're being a bit too restrictive here.

How is "I don't believe in deities and reject the notion of creative design because science" not a position about the origin/nature/existence of humanity?

 

I think you're being a bit too restrictive here.

 

The first part is a statement on religious belief, not religious belief itself exactly. The second it just basic evolutionary science that has been made by atheist and religious scientists alike.

 

 

They don't refuse to see it. It's simply not true.

LOL, religion is a belief in something, correct?

I think you're being a bit too restrictive here.

 

I think your position is far too broad. Simply having a position on human origins or any other aspect of reality does not make something a religion.

 

If you think earthquakes are caused by Thor pounding the ground because he's angry at our lack of warrior spirit, and we need make more sacrifices to him to appease him...that's religious.

If you think earthquakes are caused by seismic waves due to various events in the Earth's crust...that's not religious, even if the position concerns the same topic the religious belief does.

LOL, religion is a belief in something, correct?

 

It's a lot narrower than that. I believe that steak tastes good, but I don't practice the religion of Steakism because of that. I believe that the sun will rise again tomorrow (or really that the earth will continue rotating consistently), but that doesn't mean I pray to a sun god.

 

edit: with a definition that broad, we wouldn't have a thing called "Philosophy" because it'd all just be religion.

Edited June 9, 201411 yr by StrangeSox

LOL, religion is a belief in something, correct?

 

It's more than that. It's an organized collection of beliefs - a system, covering numerous important aspects about the universe and people. It typically appeals to the supernatural and makes positive claims about reality not known by reason or evidence, but by revelation. Most have moral systems, rituals, and guidelines for human living as well.

More or narrower?

 

Religion is a belief in something, and that belief varies from one idea to a structure. Obviously people who follow those beliefs in their daily life think its more important or complex than that, I dont.

All religion is a belief, but not all beliefs are a religion. Religion is a subset of the broader set of "beliefs"

Religion is more than a belief in something.

 

I believe in nothing, thats not a religion. I dont follow any system, there arent any rules, there is no structure. There is no way to follow it, its just a conclusion after going over all of the possible ideas that my human brain can comprehend.

 

Could my belief become a religion? Sure if people start to follow it, if there is some sort of structure given to it etc, but just "believing in something" isnt enough.

Religion is more than a belief in something.

 

I believe in nothing, thats not a religion. I dont follow any system, there arent any rules, there is no structure. There is no way to follow it, its just a conclusion after going over all of the possible ideas that my human brain can comprehend.

 

Could my belief become a religion? Sure if people start to follow it, if there is some sort of structure given to it etc, but just "believing in something" isnt enough.

 

Some people have started following and giving structure to that belief. That's the point.

The point of what exactly?

 

Just because someone agrees on an idea does not make them part of the same religion. Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael.

The point of what exactly?

 

Just because someone agrees on an idea does not make them part of the same religion. Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in Abraham, Isaac and Ishmael.

 

They all believe different things about them though.

Religion is more than a belief in something.

 

I believe in nothing, thats not a religion. I dont follow any system, there arent any rules, there is no structure. There is no way to follow it, its just a conclusion after going over all of the possible ideas that my human brain can comprehend.

 

Could my belief become a religion? Sure if people start to follow it, if there is some sort of structure given to it etc, but just "believing in something" isnt enough.

Why do people have to follow someone's ideas for it to be a religion? One person has to follow an idea or belief and they can call it their religion.

That's fine but that still doesn't make every belief (or lack thereof) a religion.

More or narrower?

 

Religion is a belief in something, and that belief varies from one idea to a structure. Obviously people who follow those beliefs in their daily life think its more important or complex than that, I dont.

 

We were both describing the same thing, despite using words that seem opposed. Everyone holds countless beliefs to varying degrees of certainty. I believe there's some dijon mustard in my fridge. This doesn't constitute a religion.

They all believe different things about them though.

 

 

 

I dont see what the relevance is. Some people may follow atheism in a religious structure, not sure how that is relevant to anything. The comment was atheism is as much as a religion as Christianity, which is simply not true.

 

By definition I am an atheist, but there is no "religion" that I subscribe to. The reason is that my belief is not immutable. It is my best attempt at an answer today, but it does not define me at all. Its entirely irrelevant to who I am. Its no more important than any of my other ideas.