At the end of the day, I think it's going to be difficult to find the proper return for Viciedo. He's likely going to be a mediocre hitter the rest of his career who always flashes with his talent. His upside and talent that shows like an Encarnacion or Beltre is always going to get him chances and give the team who has him under contract optimism for the future, thus possibly overvaluing him.

 

The thing is, Dayan Viciedo is the exact type of player people want to acquire during rebuilds. See if the guy can put it together and if not, you have others coming up in the minors. We're sick of him as Sox fans because we've seen him for years and years, but how many Rangers fans were tired of Chris Davis murdering AAA and coming up and failing? How about the Reds with Encarnacion? It's not the worst thing to not get a return on someone via trade.

 

Frankly, the same thing goes for Beckham too with the caveat that the Sox have middle infield depth and Beckham is a free agent after next season. So, no,I don't think they should trade him unless they get a big enough offer, which I don't foresee happening.

Yeah, the time to deal him has long passed.

 

At this point, you pray for the upside to pan out rather than get back someone whose best-case scenario is he could be a decent reliever.

Yeah, the time to deal him has long passed.

 

At this point, you pray for the upside to pan out rather than get back someone whose best-case scenario is he could be a decent reliever.

 

if the sox can not get a good prospect (s) back which will justify the trade, why trade him at all.

if the sox can not get a good prospect (s) back which will justify the trade, why trade him at all.

It depends on if they are willing to pay him $5 million as a 2nd year arb candidate next year.

It depends on if they are willing to pay him $5 million as a 2nd year arb candidate next year.

 

Given that they are committed to much less than half of the payrolls we've had in the past, I don't think the cash will deter us from giving it a shot

Given that they are committed to much less than half of the payrolls we've had in the past, I don't think the cash will deter us from giving it a shot

But if they hesitate at all, and they get something non-terrible offered in return for him...you at least have to ask whether he's going to give any surplus value beyond his salary next year. Oh, and if he just keeps going, $6-7 million the year after that.

It depends on if they are willing to pay him $5 million as a 2nd year arb candidate next year.

 

the sox can do a whole of good by not doing a salary dump.... plain and simple. if the trade market improves in the

offseason then re-examine the prospect of trading him. again if we can get a prospect back.

It depends on if they are willing to pay him $5 million as a 2nd year arb candidate next year.

You keep saying this, but I still don't get why it matters? Either you want to give Dayan one last shot or you don't, a $5M salary should have little impact on the decision given our financial flexibility going forward.

I don't think it's a non-factor, but I think it is a tiny factor.

But if they hesitate at all, and they get something non-terrible offered in return for him...you at least have to ask whether he's going to give any surplus value beyond his salary next year. Oh, and if he just keeps going, $6-7 million the year after that.

 

I am not suggesting to not to trade, all I am saying do not do a salary dump.

You keep saying this, but I still don't get why it matters? Either you want to give Dayan one last shot or you don't, a $5M salary should have little impact on the decision given our financial flexibility going forward.

He's getting awfully close to being a non-tender candidate and he's not hitting well enough right now to be worth $5 million if he were a FA. That absolutely plays into it for me regarding whether to accept an offer for him.

I am not suggesting to not to trade, all I am saying do not do a salary dump.

And I'm just saying that he's getting awfully close to being dumped to avoid giving him the salary he'd command in arbitration, so if you do get a tolerable offer for him, at least it's gotta be considered.

We're not already wasting $4-5 million on Beckham and DeAza???

 

C'mon.

 

If you throw in Keppinger, Downs (another similar contract) and Paulino, that's a lot of payroll misallocation.

 

 

As someone said, if you subtract Dunn and Viciedo (and maybe Ramirez), who in God's name is going to provide power next year? Matt Davidson, who has already struck out 100 times in Charlotte?

 

A GM that's going to spend that kind of money on Downs and Lindstrom and then dump Viciedo for nothing isn't going to last very long. Hahn's smarter than that, especially with the dearth of power hitting threats around baseball today.

Edited July 6, 201411 yr by caulfield12

We're not already wasting $4-5 million on Beckham and DeAza???

 

C'mon.

 

If you throw in Keppinger, Downs (another similar contract) and Paulino, that's a lot of payroll waste in terms of resource allocation.

 

 

As someone said, if you subtract Dunn and Viciedo (and maybe Ramirez), who in God's name is going to provide power next year? Matt Davidson, who has already struck out 100 times in Charlotte?

Beckham = exact same boat after last season. If he's not traded this year he's a non-tender candidate as well. He's doing even worse on defense this year and he's still barely putting up a .700 OPS. There's no reason to keep him as a 3rd year arb candidate next year.

He's getting awfully close to being a non-tender candidate and he's not hitting well enough right now to be worth $5 million if he were a FA. That absolutely plays into it for me regarding whether to accept an offer for him.

 

baseball is a business, I understand that, baseball has to show a profit and I too understand that, but sometimes

do a salary dump can hurt. there may be dynamics at play we do not know of. loyalty to the Cubans.

Beckham = exact same boat after last season. If he's not traded this year he's a non-tender candidate as well. He's doing even worse on defense this year and he's still barely putting up a .700 OPS. There's no reason to keep him as a 3rd year arb candidate next year.

 

 

That and the fact that Carlos Sanchez, Micah Johnson, Marcus Semien, Tyler Saladino and Leury Garcia can all play his position. And DeAza's a waste of salary this year as well since there's no way he's in the long-term plans.

 

 

Whereas we have Danks, a 29 year old Michael Taylor (keep reminding everyone Viciedo's still only 25), Sierra and Tuiasasopo to replace Dayan. Not to mention that we have to replace Dunn as well...with who???

Edited July 6, 201411 yr by caulfield12

We're not already wasting $4-5 million on Beckham and DeAza???

 

C'mon.

 

If you throw in Keppinger, Downs (another similar contract) and Paulino, that's a lot of payroll misallocation.

 

 

As someone said, if you subtract Dunn and Viciedo (and maybe Ramirez), who in God's name is going to provide power next year? Matt Davidson, who has already struck out 100 times in Charlotte?

 

A GM that's going to spend that kind of money on Downs and Lindstrom and then dump Viciedo for nothing isn't going to last very long. Hahn's smarter than that, especially with the dearth of power hitting threats around baseball today.

 

 

keppinger was a very expensive mistake. (on a side note, why is he still on the IR in the minors)

baseball is a business, I understand that, baseball has to show a profit and I too understand that, but sometimes

do a salary dump can hurt. there may be dynamics at play we do not know of. loyalty to the Cubans.

That's one reason why I'm hesitant to say "yes we absolutely need to move him".

 

But just ask yourself this question. What are we likely to get better production out of next year, Micah Johnson/carlos Sanchez at 2b and a >$10 million FA signing or Viciedo + Beckham?

 

As of right now, I'd say the former, and that means if I can get something for those guys and save another $1-2 million this year...it's at least worth serious consideration.

I think Dayan would have no problem making $5 million as a FA

And I'm just saying that he's getting awfully close to being dumped to avoid giving him the salary he'd command in arbitration, so if you do get a tolerable offer for him, at least it's gotta be considered.

 

and if the sox goes arb on him, I am going to find it hard that the sox will lose.

and if the sox goes arb on him, I am going to find it hard that the sox will lose.

That's not how this works and you know that.

 

He's going to get something near $5 million next offseason if he's offered.

That's one reason why I'm hesitant to say "yes we absolutely need to move him".

 

But just ask yourself this question. What are we likely to get better production out of next year, Micah Johnson/carlos Sanchez at 2b and a >$10 million FA signing or Viciedo + Beckham?

 

As of right now, I'd say the former, and that means if I can get something for those guys and save another $1-2 million this year...it's at least worth serious consideration.

 

however I have no problem putting DV at dh and let him hit.

 

 

however I have no problem putting DV at dh and let him hit.

with the numbers he's putting up this year?

That's not how this works and you know that.

 

He's going to get something near $5 million next offseason if he's offered.

 

I am sorry, you are right, I was typing too fast and forgot I sentence.

 

I have no problem to let him walk after his contract is up. again, I would like to revisit the trade options

during the offseason, if we can not get a good rtn. sea needs this trade the sox can live without making

the trade.

Or you can make the argument we should sign Chase Utley for $10 million and leave Viciedo in the mix...not trade Ramirez, add a veteran starter and figure out SOME WAY to replace Flowers.

 

If Rodon's on the timetable everyone is suggesting, he's going to factor in next year...despite the lack of an announcement about his signing yet today (doubt we'll hear anything that takes away from ASG selections, maybe tmrw?)

with the numbers he's putting up this year?

even with the numbers. imo we need 1 more yr of rebuilding to be done.