Really happy to see Johnson and Smoltz make the HOF. I was just a sophomore in HS when they were rookies and loved watching their highlights throughout their careers. I remember sitting in a pool hall drinking one night and watched Johnson K something like 19 Sox hitters. Many, many beers were downed that night.

 

I'm fine with Biggio and Pedro too. Pedro was pretty filthy and loved watching him pitch against the cubs when the Expos were in town.

 

For some reason, this game is memorable to me.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SE...199406250.shtml

 

McDowell was coming off a Cy season, but not doing great at this point. A classic pitcher's duel.

Raines should be in.

 

Another guy who I think doesn't get nearly enough love is Alan Trammell.

For some reason, this game is memorable to me.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SE...199406250.shtml

 

McDowell was coming off a Cy season, but not doing great at this point. A classic pitcher's duel.

After looking at the box score, that's a good memory to have flavum.

 

Here's the one I was talking about...

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SE...199708080.shtml

 

I was drinking and watching the game with the owner of the pool hall whom was also a Sox fan and we both just sat there in awe of Johnson that night.

Hall of Fame was cheapened in my mind when they allowed Santo to cry and whine his way in

I will always remember this Pedro game. He mowed down the tough Sox lineup, but Sirotka hung with him, only to be done in by a Valentin error.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BO...200007230.shtml

With it being McGwire's last year next year, hopefully more will look at him as a wasted vote and Raines will get some more traction over the next two years.

 

Griffey is the only lock next year, with Jim Edmonds, Billy Wagner, and Trevor Hoffman there too.

 

2 years from now-- Ivan Rodriguez, Manny, Vlad, and Posada are the notables.

 

Hoffman should eventually get in, but no to Wagner and Edmonds.

 

Then in 2 years Pudge has a PED cloud similar to Piazza, Manny has his own issues and Posada is not close to being a HoFer. Vladdy should be the only 1st timer that year.

Hoffman should eventually get in, but no to Wagner and Edmonds.

 

Then in 2 years Pudge has a PED cloud similar to Piazza, Manny has his own issues and Posada is not close to being a HoFer. Vladdy should be the only 1st timer that year.

 

I think Billy Wagner is really underappreciated for how good he was. I don't think he will get in, and probably shouldn't, but he's closer than many think. His numbers stacked up to Mariano Rivera are strikingly similar.

 

Mariano Rivera - 2.21 ERA, 2.76 FIP, 1.000 WHIP, 7.0 H/9, 0.5 HR/9, 2.0 BB/9, 8.2 K/9, 4.1 K/BB, 652 Saves

Billy Wagner - 2.31 ERA, 2.73 FIP, 0.998 WHIP, 6.0 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 11.9 K/9, 3.99 K/BB, 422 Saves

 

Their numbers are nearly identical with the only difference being Rivera played much longer and played for the Yankees which accounts for the extra 230 saves. Wagner played basically 14 seasons and was still really good when he retired while Rivera played 18 seasons. On a per season basis, Wagner had about 30 saves to Rivera's 36. Pretty close with the difference being that Rivera played for the Yankees and therefore had many more opportunities.

 

I'm certainly not saying Wagner had the career that Rivera did, but really when they were both at the top of their game they were about equal. That being said I don't think it's right for one to be considered the greatest reliever of all time and the other to just have become an after thought.

I think Billy Wagner is really underappreciated for how good he was. I don't think he will get in, and probably shouldn't, but he's closer than many think. His numbers stacked up to Mariano Rivera are strikingly similar.

 

Mariano Rivera - 2.21 ERA, 2.76 FIP, 1.000 WHIP, 7.0 H/9, 0.5 HR/9, 2.0 BB/9, 8.2 K/9, 4.1 K/BB, 652 Saves

Billy Wagner - 2.31 ERA, 2.73 FIP, 0.998 WHIP, 6.0 H/9, 0.8 HR/9, 3.0 BB/9, 11.9 K/9, 3.99 K/BB, 422 Saves

 

Their numbers are nearly identical with the only difference being Rivera played much longer and played for the Yankees which accounts for the extra 230 saves. Wagner played basically 14 seasons and was still really good when he retired while Rivera played 18 seasons. On a per season basis, Wagner had about 30 saves to Rivera's 36. Pretty close with the difference being that Rivera played for the Yankees and therefore had many more opportunities.

 

I'm certainly not saying Wagner had the career that Rivera did, but really when they were both at the top of their game they were about equal. That being said I don't think it's right for one to be considered the greatest reliever of all time and the other to just have become an after thought.

 

I think Wagner deserves to be a HOFer more than Hoffman does.

Hoffman should eventually get in, but no to Wagner and Edmonds.

 

Then in 2 years Pudge has a PED cloud similar to Piazza, Manny has his own issues and Posada is not close to being a HoFer. Vladdy should be the only 1st timer that year.

 

I'm not so sure about that. I feel like with the younger voter crowd, a large number of saves doesn't guarantee anything.

I think Wagner deserves to be a HOFer more than Hoffman does.

 

I agree. Wagner was a better pitcher than Hoffman. The biggest problem is there are still a lot of old timers in the BBWAA that like nice round figures like 600 saves and s*** like that. Or they'll look at the fact that for about five years he was the all time saves leader. When all is said and done I think Hoffman will be in but Wagner won't and I don't really like that.

I agree. Wagner was a better pitcher than Hoffman. The biggest problem is there are still a lot of old timers in the BBWAA that like nice round figures like 600 saves and s*** like that. Or they'll look at the fact that for about five years he was the all time saves leader. When all is said and done I think Hoffman will be in but Wagner won't and I don't really like that.

 

Hoffman was an incredible pitcher for a long time, so I'd have no problem with him getting in, but I think Wagner deserves it more. I think people just forget how good Billy Wagner really was. Frankly, if Mariano Rivera is the greatest reliever of all time, you can make a damn good argument that Billy Wagner is the second best reliever of all time.

For some reason, this game is memorable to me.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SE...199406250.shtml

 

McDowell was coming off a Cy season, but not doing great at this point. A classic pitcher's duel.

 

What is amazing is to see the monster numbers Thomas was showing at near midseason but went 0-4 with 3 Ks and a GIDP. Shows you how awesome Johnson was to take down a hitter in a season long zone like that.

Hoffman was an incredible pitcher for a long time, so I'd have no problem with him getting in, but I think Wagner deserves it more. I think people just forget how good Billy Wagner really was. Frankly, if Mariano Rivera is the greatest reliever of all time, you can make a damn good argument that Billy Wagner is the second best reliever of all time.

Blasphemy. Hoffman > Wagner. Their was a period of time you could argue Hoffman was better than Riveria. He didn't have the longevity and I agree Wagner was nasty from the left side. Part of this is my eye test and just watching Hoffman, I thought he was legendary at his position (similar to Mo). Wagner wasn't at the same level as either of them from an eye test (however, I agree he is a borderline hall of famer).

 

MLB Now last night was fantastic by the way. I think Pedro is the greatest pitcher I've ever seen so I think he should have gotten 100% of the vote and the highest vote but I have no arguments with who got in. I'm surprised at how much Sheffield was impacted (given his story feels more genuine than a lot of the other users).

I don't mind seeing names at the bottom of the ballot that don't belong. As long as the argument is so and so should be in and isn't I'm not as concerned as "how the hell did he get in?"

I don't mind seeing names at the bottom of the ballot that don't belong. As long as the argument is so and so should be in and isn't I'm not as concerned as "how the hell did he get in?"

They definitely need to increase the # of votes that the writers get (and update who can vote). Too many clowns who don't even cover baseball anymore are allowed to vote and with the window only being 10 years (vs. the previous 15), I think it only makes sense that you have a few more votes to keep some guys on the list. I don't think that the additional votes are going to result in more guys getting in, just keep more guys in play.

It's funny seeing all these old box scores just from 15-20 years ago where both starters are going 130-140 pitches, no big deal.

For some reason, this game is memorable to me.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SE...199406250.shtml

 

McDowell was coming off a Cy season, but not doing great at this point. A classic pitcher's duel.

 

 

What is amazing is to see the monster numbers Thomas was showing at near midseason but went 0-4 with 3 Ks and a GIDP. Shows you how awesome Johnson was to take down a hitter in a season long zone like that.

 

Pretty amazing numbers.

 

It's already late June and Frank has a .372/.503/.779 line.

 

Griffey has .325/.407/.735

 

I loved those two guys as a kid. I didn't really start watching until '98 or so--one of my regrets is never seen Griffey live, as he was out of the AL pretty early from my perspective. When he came to the Sox I wasn't really going to games again yet, either.

 

Between Thomas, Johnson and Griffey you have three definite Hall of Famers in that game, and two more who deserve it but may never get in.

The numbers in 1994 were large. Very possible they were playing with a juiced ball because the strike was looming.