What is your alternative?

 

i remember this saying from a movie. but it is appropriate right now.

 

the only alternative is one that no one really want to think of.

Yes, I know that. We should just keep it as payment for putting up with their s*** and for breaking the agreement already. Where are these provisions for if (when!) they break the agreement? This admin supposedly negotiated in good faith, and the negotiating partners pretty much just gave Obama a big F U and decided to do whatever they want. Why? because they know we won't do anything. ANYTHING. Why negotiate at all if you are just going to let them do whatever they want? Why the pretense of an agreement? Keep the money. f*** them.

Of course, you know you're being dishonest at the very least because the "nuclear weapons deal" does not cover development of missile technology. It is specifically designed to deal with the huge problem of nuclear weapons. Those launches are in violation of UN security council resolutions, but they are not in violation of any part of the nuclear deal. So they're not "breaking the agreement already", you're deliberately switching the topic and I'm betting you know that.

 

It's not worth invading Iran because they receive money freed up from the removal of sanctions related to their nuclear program (notably not all the sanctions on them). It's not worth invading Iran because they have ballistic missile technology they're not using. It's worth invading Iran if they're developing a nuclear weapon. They know that, you know that.

Of course, you know you're being dishonest at the very least because the "nuclear weapons deal" does not cover development of missile technology. It is specifically designed to deal with the huge problem of nuclear weapons. Those launches are in violation of UN security council resolutions, but they are not in violation of any part of the nuclear deal. So they're not "breaking the agreement already", you're deliberately switching the topic and I'm betting you know that.

 

It's not worth invading Iran because they receive money freed up from the removal of sanctions related to their nuclear program (notably not all the sanctions on them). It's not worth invading Iran because they have ballistic missile technology they're not using. It's worth invading Iran if they're developing a nuclear weapon. They know that, you know that.

 

but the big question is will the avg american would be willing to have a war again in the middle east??

 

i think the avg american would rather hide their head in sand and pretend not to look at Iran.

 

it is going to be a big sell to convince the americans that it is a must thing to do.

Trump admin certified that Iran is complying with the terms of the agreement.

 

https://twitter.com/AP/status/854523686300397568

Republican approval for the deal jumped from 37% to 53% after Trump admin certified compliance.

 

https://t.co/TwpPPa4G9o

Edited April 27, 20178 yr by StrangeSox

White House 'pressuring' intelligence officials to find Iran in violation of nuclear deal

Intelligence analysts, chastened by the experience of the 2003 Iraq war, are said to be resisting the pressure to come up with evidence of Iranian violations

Trump's pre-hyping this announcement means he's definitely going to scrap the deal, giving Iran every incentive to spin their nuclear program back up.

 

edit: and every other country no reason to trust our diplomacy and international agreements since there's always the chance we elect another idiot reality TV conman who will torpedo everything out of spite and stupidity

Edited September 20, 20178 yr by StrangeSox

Yep, we're out.

 

Looking forward to the agreement framework collapsing and Iran resuming nuclear development.

I basically hope that he says we are withdrawing in name only.

President trump will be in office soon!

haha oh man what a self-own this was

I basically hope that he says we are withdrawing in name only.

 

We're not immediately restarting sanctions, but it's being kicked back to congress to be "fixed." Congress will almost definitely do nothing, and Iran has made it very clear directly and through the other members to the agreement that they are not open to renegotiation.

 

I dunno, hopefully Congress isn't short-sighted enough to actually reimpose sanctions and Iran remains in compliance with the rest of the countries. This isn't even certifying the deal because Iran broke their end of the bargain. There's zero reason for them to trust the US now and, after seeing NK's path, every incentive to get the big "I dare you to invade us at the cost of millions of your allies dead in an hour" weapon.

Looking back at some of the early pages in the thread, and there was a lot of mention of DOE inspection teams. Good time to repost this article highlighting just how badly Rick Perry is crippling the DOE's operational capabilities.

 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/dep...s-michael-lewis

I basically hope that he says we are withdrawing in name only.

 

Politico has a piece that says this is, essentially, what will happen.

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/03/t...ear-deal-243427

 

Basically, Trump decertifies and s*** talks Obama and vows a "strong foreign policy." Meanwhile, Mattis and Tillerson encourage the Senate to NOT reinstate sanctions, offering assurances that more pressure would be applied to Iran outside of the Deal. The thinking is to preserve the deal and, more importantly, our influence with Europe while giving Trump his chance to stick it to Obama.

 

I'm not confident this strategy will succeed long term, but for now, the Iran Deal itself "probably" isn't going away quite yet. America's reputation, power and influence is shot beyond repair no matter how this farce plays out though.

And why, again, would north korea be open to diplomacy, when a country that is in compliance is then deemed to not be in compliance just because the next admin didn't like the deal?

I don't even think we're deeming them not in compliance or claiming they violated it in any way. We're just unilaterally walking away from the agreement to renegotiate because Trump.

 

Which is in many ways even worse because it says that there's no reason to trust US negotiations to be meaningful and lasting, so why bother. See also: TPP, Paris.

Official announcement that he's withdrawing certification. This administration continues to make a combination of the worst and dumbest decision on every issue.

 

Worm brained President.  Just so incredibly stupid. 

 

And now Iran and Israel are starting a war. Great. We're sure to side with Israel because Jesus. 

its funny that Netanyahu is using the exact same reasoning to go after Iran that he used when he spoke to congress with certainty of Iraqs WMDs

Once and for all can we just pick up our toys, go home, and stop playing in the Middle East.  These problems will never be solved until one side is completely obliterated.  Stop wasting lives and money on an unsolvable problem.

19 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

its funny that Netanyahu is using the exact same reasoning to go after Iran that he used when he spoke to congress with certainty of Iraqs WMDs

we're reliving 2000-2004 all over again, only dumber and faster

9 hours ago, raBBit said:

What? We don't side with Israel because of Jesus we side with Israel on everything because Congress is corrupt and influenced. 

Both are true. Have you ever been to a Christian Evangelical church? I have. The amount of love for Israel is scary. According to the preacher, Israel must be protected at any cost and they can do no wrong. Why? Because Jesus is coming. 

Edited May 11, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

On 5/10/2018 at 10:56 PM, Jack Parkman said:

Both are true. Have you ever been to a Christian Evangelical church? I have. The amount of love for Israel is scary. According to the preacher, Israel must be protected at any cost and they can do no wrong. Why? Because Jesus is coming. 

 

Mnuchin is threatening our European allies with secondary sanctions if they maintain the deal with Iran without us and provide Iran with sanctions relief