Official College Football Thread

[Palehosefan]

Come on man. Half of those players wouldnt have gone to college if it wasnt for sports, and half of their families hadnt saved up a a dime.

 

I'm not arguing some places have student-athletes going to no-show jobs, but it doesn't happen everywhere. As for half the students not going to college if not for sports, I will buy that for college in general, but cases like the NC State basketball team don't fit that profile.

[RockRaines]

And overly defensive fans.

Tressel gets the schools he works for overly defensive fans?? I didnt even know youngstown state was like that? Crazy

Edited January 6, 2006 by RockRaines

[RockRaines]

I'm not arguing some places have student-athletes going to no-show jobs, but it doesn't happen everywhere. As for half the students not going to college if not for sports, I will buy that for college in general, but cases like the NC State basketball team don't fit that profile.

And im telling you, even in places where you dont think it happens, it happens. I went to Miami University in Oxford Ohio. Well known as an upper middle class white haven. Not diverse, even alot of the athletes come from affluent families. Without calling anyone out specifically, I have been there when things were given to players. I saw the unfair advantages that players received. And this school has barely 50 percent of the stadium full on gameday. I can only imagine what it is like with millions of dollars at stake. Its everywhere, and frankly I have no problem with it.

[RockRaines]

Here are some NCAA graduation rates for basketball. If they dont graduate im pretty sure their tenure at school was primarily for sports.

 

Average graduation rates

NCAA MEN's Basketball 1993-2001

ACC, Big 10, Big 12, Big East, Pac 10, SEC

 

81-100 percent

Stanford

Penn State

Northwestern

61-80 percent

Providence

Notre Dame

Villanova

St. John's

North Carolina

Duke

Virginia

Vanderbilt

Michigan State

Indiana

Georgetown

 

41-60 percent

Boston College

Wisconsin

Mississippi

Washington State

Purdue

West Virginia

Miami

Rutgers

Pittsburgh

Wake Forest

South Carolina

Iowa

Seton Hall

California

Kansas State

Georgia Tech

Florida

Kansas

Oregon

Nebraska

 

26-40 percent

Connecticut

Oregon State

Michigan

UCLA

Virginia Tech

Iowa State

Florida State

Colorado

Mississippi State

Baylor

Kentucky

Illinois

USC

Auburn

Missouri

N.C. State

Washington

Texas

Clemson

Georgia

Texas A&M

Ohio State

 

0-25 percent

Minnesota

Temple

Tennessee

Arkansas

Oklahoma State

Texas Tech

Syracuse

Maryland

Arizona

Alabama

Arizona State

Oklahoma

LSU

[Palehosefan]

Things like easier grading, discounts on items, "free" stuff of course do happen everywhere. But I'm arguing that things like free substantial money gifts, free cars, papers written for you, etc DON'T happen everywhere. Most athletes do get "stipends", hell I've seen some female softball players that got higher weekend stipends then I would earn in a week. I guess we could sit here all day and argue what "cheating" is considered, I'm just saying that significant cheating doesn't happen everywhere. The funniest part to me is that I have a good friend, who played and was recruited as a WR at Tennessee, and he got even less than the female softball players I talked about.

 

I don't have a problem with easier jobs for athletes either, or stipends, as being a student athlete pretty much takes up your possible job earnings time. It's almost impossible to be a student, football player, and have a legit job, and stay sane. I'm having a hard enough time with just two of those 3.

[RockRaines]

Things like easier grading, discounts on items, "free" stuff of course do happen everywhere. But I'm arguing that things like free substantial money gifts, free cars, papers written for you, etc DON'T happen everywhere. Most athletes do get "stipends", hell I've seen some female softball players that got higher weekend stipends then I would earn in a week. I guess we could sit here all day and argue what "cheating" is considered, I'm just saying that significant cheating doesn't happen everywhere. The funniest part to me is that I have a good friend, who played and was recruited as a WR at Tennessee, and he got even less than the female softball players I talked about.

 

I don't have a problem with easier jobs for athletes either, or stipends, as being a student athlete pretty much takes up your possible job earnings time. It's almost impossible to be a student, football player, and have a legit job, and stay sane. I'm having a hard enough time with just two of those 3.

Oh, I dont know if you thought that I think its cheating. Im just saying that alot of that stuff goes on more than you know. And it happens everywhere. Free stuff, even grade and paper help like that is an NCAA violation. I honestly have no problem with it anyway, because I feel that the players bring in millions, and get the scholarship, which they may or may not use anyway. I mean, I own college players jerseys, but some of them dont have enough money to eat somewhere off campus without some help.

 

My only problem is when people post comments like, oh man, they did someting terrible, why would they do that, when a violation is rumored. But their school probably does and still does the same things today.

[Balta1701]

Vick is officially kicked off of Va Tech's team.

[Palehosefan]

The problem with the graduate rates calculations is two-fold.

 

1. If a player transfers, they are automatically counted as a non-graduate.

 

2. If a player leaves early, they are a non-graduate.

 

If a player doesn't graduate on time, he's counted as a non-graduate. Alot of players have to go back to school for more than 4 years to get their degree. The rest, you are right, they just weren't cut out for it. I wish I could see a list of percentage of "regular" students who don't graduate, or don't graduate on time.

[Palehosefan]

My only problem is when people post comments like, oh man, they did someting terrible, why would they do that, when a violation is rumored. But their school probably does and still does the same things today.

 

I can agree with that, there's alot of hypocrisy around. I know most UNC basketball players are driving around in new SUV's, and I don't really want to know why. But another funny thing, Raymond Felton spent his 3 years at UNC driving around in a Gremlin the entire time.

[RockRaines]

The problem with the graduate rates calculations is two-fold.

 

1. If a player transfers, they are automatically counted as a non-graduate.

 

2. If a player leaves early, they are a non-graduate.

 

If a player doesn't graduate on time, he's counted as a non-graduate. Alot of players have to go back to school for more than 4 years to get their degree. The rest, you are right, they just weren't cut out for it. I wish I could see a list of percentage of "regular" students who don't graduate, or don't graduate on time.

True, but guys who leave early were basically there for sports, I assure you many wouldnt have gone to college without sports.

 

With that said, since I took an extra summer to do graduate work before graduation, I would have been a non-grad then.

[YASNY]

that is different.  It didn't really cost them that much and if he sucked or was still injured they could just let him go.  Now if Vick was still around in the 4th or 5th round I would say yes.  But not in the first 3 rounds.

 

Oh, I see now. Character over talent only applies to the 1st three rounds of the draft because drafting a questionable character player in the 5th round would minimize your risks. Yep, I see exactly how character fits into this equation.

[BobDylan]

Oh, I see now.  Character over talent only applies to the 1st three rounds of the draft because drafting a questionable character player in the 5th round would  minimize your risks.  Yep, I see exactly how character fits into this equation.

 

I just don't see why any franchise would put a risk into drafting a Marcus Vick instead of a Matt Lienert if they had a top five pick. Now maybe Vick isn't a top five QB even without character issues, but even if he were a 5-25 pick, why would anyone take a QB with blatant character problems over a somewhat lesser talent that doesn't have character issues?

 

I mean, who do you want sailing your ship? Somebody that can crack at any minute, but get you to your destination quickly if he stays steady, or somebody that surely won't snap, but get you there in a little longer time?

[GoodAsGould]

Umm Im pretty sure Vick wont be a top 5 pick let alone a first rounder... hell he might not even go in the first day.... so comparing him with leinart is just plain dumb and a waste of time.

[Palehosefan]

I mean, who do you want sailing your ship? Somebody that can crack at any minute, but get you to your destination quickly if he stays steady, or somebody that surely won't snap, but get you there in a little longer time?

 

I understand what you mean Bob, but you don't have to worry about Vick being taken in the 1st now. I see him in the same situation as Adrian McPherson last year, a guy with alot of talent, but not much going on in the head. Some team will take a flyer on him, most likely Atlanta, to see if Mike can keep him in check. I see Vick as a WR on the next level, that would be odd to see Michael throwing to Marcus, but it could happen. Watch out under-age girls in Atlanta!

[White Sox Josh]

Oh, I see now.  Character over talent only applies to the 1st three rounds of the draft because drafting a questionable character player in the 5th round would  minimize your risks.  Yep, I see exactly how character fits into this equation.

Because when you draft a guy in the first 3 rounds he will probably make more money. pretty much drafting a guy in the last 4 rounds you are just filling up roster space. You won't have to pay much and he won't be expected to be anything other than a backup. If he does better great. If not it doesn't hurt you that much.