quickman Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Phil Arvia - Ffrom the Daily Southtown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- White pitches a fit over Manuel moves Monday, July 28, 2003 Rick White has pitched in a World Series with the Mets and a League Championship Series with St. Louis, but, even in the midst of their hottest streak of the year, he doesn't think he'll pitch in the postseason for the White Sox. Not with Jerry Manuel calling the shots. The relief pitcher aired out his manager Sunday over Manuel's handling of the bullpen. The stunning broadside showed that some of his players may share the concerns voiced by many Sox fans about Manuel's deployment of the troops. "All I'm saying is we can't win this thing if he's going to go through it the way he's doing," White said. Take whatever White said with a grain of salt, considering he said it the morning after taking the loss to end one of the two eight-game winning streaks the Sox have managed in six years under Manuel. But, White insisted he was not blaming his performance — five earned runs in 2 1/3 innings — on Manuel's 'pen-managing skills. "It was not a function of how I'm being used ... I just didn't get the job done (Saturday). That was my fault," White said. "But, it was one of those things where, if he would use guys in certain situations accordingly prior to (Saturday), he wouldn't have to panic in the third inning and say, 'OK, we have to get somebody in there.' "He could look at it and say, 'OK, I've got this guy for the first through the fifth, this guy for the sixth and seventh if I need him, I've got this guy for the seventh and eighth, this guy for the ninth and an extra-inning guy. "But, no, it's never like that. It's like, 'Let's burn this guy out the day before so he can't pitch the next day.' Then let's burn this guy out so he can't pitch. Now he's got two guys left in the bullpen for six innings." Perhaps wisely, Manuel declined to comment on White's thoughts after Sunday's win. You'd think he'll have to address the issue in private, and not just to White, considering a veteran reliever often seen playing cards with the brightest young stars of the pitching staff is now on record as saying Manuel burns out his pitchers and doesn't plan well. Oh yeah, and he panicked with his quick hook of Mike Porzio in Saturday's loss to the Devil Rays. "I thought he panicked," White said. "He got (Gary) Glover up in the second, then I'm up in the third and coming in in the third or fourth. The last three games before that I've been pitching in the seventh, eighth and ninth innings, or the 13th inning. "The thing about (Saturday) is, you've got a guy who goes out there and (makes) his third start since being called up and, second inning comes around, they've got Glover up already. We're down 3-0 against Tampa Bay. It's not like we're playing the Yankees and there's a good chance we're not going to score any more runs." There are other things that bother White about Manuel's approach, including occasionally sending starting pitchers out to spend games in the bullpen. Mark Buehrle was in the 'pen for Saturday's game and Jon Garland was there Sunday. "We've got Buehrle down there, knowing that Buehrle's not going to get used because he's going to start on his fifth day," White said. "It's just like, why even send him down there? "Another time we've got our fifth starter sitting in the bullpen the day before he started. He's not going to go in the game, but now (Manuel's) got him thinking, 'I might not be starting tomorrow because if they need me today I've got to go today.' How do you sit the guy who's supposed to start the next day in the 'pen?" Actually, Buehrle could have been used in an emergency Saturday given the bullpen was shorthanded, a short stint substituting for his regular side day between starts. Since he's pitching Tuesday and didn't pitch Saturday, his seat in the 'pen merely caused Buehrle to move his side day to Sunday. At any rate, it might be easy to dismiss White's comments as whining from a guy with a 6.13 ERA. Except, allegations of haphazard treatment of the bullpen dovetail well with a frequent criticism tossed Manuel's way — his refusal to settle on anything approximating an everyday lineup. In Sunday's game, the 105th of the season, the Sox used their 94th different lineup. Until last Thursday and Friday, they hadn't used the same lineup in consecutive games all year. Perhaps all that juggling has something to do with why Manuel's teams historically seem to be waiting for the hot streak that rarely comes. Certainly, at least one Sox hitter would find some comfort in batting in the same spot in the lineup each day. "I don't care if it's hitting second, hitting seventh, hitting eighth, whatever," said Jose Valentin, who in addition to batting second, seventh and eighth this season has also hit first, third, fifth and sixth. "Just one spot, all year, having consistency with something is a lot easier. "You need to get yourself in that situation every day. You hit in a different spot, you're going to find a different situation every time." That Manuel always has a reason for his constant tweaking doesn't mean much to the ones being tweaked. They'd prefer Manuel simply let the car warm up instead of always trying to tune it up. One way or another, the Sox have to keep this thing running at peak output. Their last 57 games of the season include 44 games with Kansas City, Seattle, Oakland, Anaheim, New York, Boston and Minnesota. It is a stretch guaranteed to let the Sox know what they're made of, whether or not they know when they're pitching or where they're batting. Phil Arvia can be reached at parvia@dailysouthtown.com or (708) 633-5949. News | Sports | Business | Classifieds | Entertainment/Lifestyles | Opinion/Letters Daily Southtown Home Page | Search | Weather About Us | Subscription Information Back to top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 28, 2003 Author Share Posted July 28, 2003 Hey Folks, My two cents, I realize White is probably right and many on the board have been very critical Manual, I really don't like this happening at this time. Going into KC I don't need controversy. I cannot believe he stepped out at this time. Considering he sucks himself he needs to just shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Rick White just needs to STFU. This ass-clown is lucky to have a job with us considering the way he pitched March - May, and now he wants to call out his manager to the media? This is s*** that belongs in the clubhouse right or wrong. Maybe this will motivate Kenny to trade this b****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 white should shut the f*** up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 28, 2003 Author Share Posted July 28, 2003 Maybe that is his angle. To get off the team. I just don't get it. We all realized that Manual over used the pen, but this type of stuff takes apart the team. We need the team to unite not be torn apart. Big frank should take him by the ears and pound a little sense in him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 This was stuff White said on ESPN1000 last Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Rick White? How many World Series rings has Rick White won in his fabulous career? The dude had allowed 10 home runs in 47 innings. It's a stretch to say that without Rick White, the Sox would be four games up, not 4 behind. Rick White is lucky he's in the big leagues. Get rid of him when either Rauch, Diaz, Wright or Cotts is summoned to be the No. 5 starter. and let Matt Ginter take White's role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Irish Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 He is in the Pen every game and he knows what the guys are talking and thinking. He makes alot of good points and I think he is speaking for a lot of the players. It is rediculous to juggle a line up so much. Those are the types of things that the Detroits and Tampa Bays do. If you are supposed to be a contender, pick a line up, and contend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 He is in the Pen every game and he knows what the guys are talking and thinking. He makes alot of good points and I think he is speaking for a lot of the players. It is rediculous to juggle a line up so much. Those are the types of things that the Detroits and Tampa Bays do. If you are supposed to be a contender, pick a line up, and contend! You don't call out your manager in the media, espesially if your ERA is the wrong side of 6! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Maybe this will be enough to flat out release him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 So are you going to just release Jose too then?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 28, 2003 Author Share Posted July 28, 2003 He is in the Pen every game and he knows what the guys are talking and thinking. He makes alot of good points and I think he is speaking for a lot of the players. It is rediculous to juggle a line up so much. Those are the types of things that the Detroits and Tampa Bays do. If you are supposed to be a contender, pick a line up, and contend! Irish, makes no difference if you agree with what he said. he should not call this out to the media, before the biggest series with KC this year. Its crap. He is not the leader on this team, in fact I would package him with koch and a bag of concrete and take them for a boat ride. We need this team together. if he has issues or the ptiching staff have issues they need to talk about it with manual and cooper. In fact Cooper should be talking about it with jerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 He is in the Pen every game and he knows what the guys are talking and thinking. He makes alot of good points and I think he is speaking for a lot of the players. It is rediculous to juggle a line up so much. Those are the types of things that the Detroits and Tampa Bays do. If you are supposed to be a contender, pick a line up, and contend! he made the team with a worse spring training era and everything worse in ST than Ginter but made it on his rep he sucked much of the 1st part of the season he just destroyed a game on Saturday I wouldn't, none of us would be, even be commenting on him except he has to open his mouth before a big series JM has one division title and like him or not like him, he got us there once and this team has come together well this month - lot of ways to contend, not just one what is ridiculous is White shooting off his mouth at all, let alone now that is not the sign of a remotely team oriented player and sounds like he's trying to deflect blame for that atrocity of a pitching performance he pulled Saturday after sucking much of the year - "it's not my fault, it's that bad man's fault" a little maturity, responsibility, and team first attitude would do White a world of good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 So are you going to just release Jose too then?????? what does releasing Jose have to do with the White situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Well, I think WHite said this in the wrong place, but I've believed that Manuel blows at telling guys their roles for years now and its why I've been constantly calling for him to be fired. I don't think there is any secret that the Sox went on their winning streak during the same time period where Manuel actually went with a set lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 what does releasing Jose have to do with the White situation? Perhaps all that juggling has something to do with why Manuel's teams historically seem to be waiting for the hot streak that rarely comes. Certainly, at least one Sox hitter would find some comfort in batting in the same spot in the lineup each day. "I don't care if it's hitting second, hitting seventh, hitting eighth, whatever," said Jose Valentin, who in addition to batting second, seventh and eighth this season has also hit first, third, fifth and sixth. "Just one spot, all year, having consistency with something is a lot easier. "You need to get yourself in that situation every day. You hit in a different spot, you're going to find a different situation every time." That Manuel always has a reason for his constant tweaking doesn't mean much to the ones being tweaked. They'd prefer Manuel simply let the car warm up instead of always trying to tune it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 I think the Sox should have a clubhouse meeting, and Big Frank should pinch off White's head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Who the hell cares how good Rick white is? He even said he he's not pitching well. This isnt about a s***ty pitcher being a big mouth. It's about someone on this team speaking up. Does anyone think he's the only one on the team who feels this way? HELL NO! He has spoken for MANY of the fans including me. Jerry Manuel is a s***ty manager. And White isnt like the others who keep quiet because they know they'll catch hell for it. Souuds to me that he thinks Manuel is such an idiot that he dont care if they ship him out for it. I stand by it that he's not alone on his thoughts. Would it make a difference if it were Buehrle , Garland, or Loaiza? Yes it would. The media would make a HUGE deal out of it. I'm glad one of the pitchers we dont care about spoke up. Someone needed to. Good job Rick White! Now just get someone out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greppson24ottondo Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 what does releasing Jose have to do with the White situation? I think Upnorth was referring to Jose's comments about the inconsistency and constant tweaking of the line up. Valentin's comments seemed a little more professional. He wasn't calling out Jerry like Rick White was. Valentin is just frustrated with his .230 something batting average, but I think the team should be focusing on the positives. It doesn't sound good coming from Jose, one of the proclaimed leaders of the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Valentin is just frustrated with his .230 something batting average one of the proclaimed leaders of the team. self proclaimed leader for sure. Not to get into the whole St JosE6 thing but his average needs to be up up up. I get tired of hearing about all the excuses for not hitting because he gets moved on - he's in the game, so hit - and now from White about pitching. Notice anyone with a 2.1 ERA or 320 batting average never complains? Only those who dwell on the bottom have time for excuses. I love RPS like the Irish brother I never had - his defense of White is predictable since he detests JM so much. But for the rest of you - what the f***? We are going into a big series, a big stretch of games - and hell, we have a better record than Anaheim, maybe White should mouth off about Scocisa - why not just play the game? A player who goes public like this at any time but especially right now loses my total respect. The jerk picked a great time - also when they go on the road. I'd like to boo that big-mouth's ass right now. Maybe he can explain his season long record and last Saturday without mentioning anyone but himself - but it is so much easier to blame others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted July 28, 2003 Author Share Posted July 28, 2003 again, I have no problem with white believing what he believes and I am sure many of us feel the exact same way he does, but don't put it in the paper and don't comment before the KC series. The pitchers can take it to cooper in a pitchers only meeting. The coaches can work this out. This is being talked about again on the radio today. How could this pull the team together when we need to take at least two out of three from KC. I don't see how white is helping anyone but his self serving fat ass. I remember Bernie Nichols was on the radio one year being interviewed and was asked if the team needed better players to win in the playoffs, he said yes and would want the blackhawks to make a trade. Chris chelios called in and was put on the radio at the same time, he said Bernie shut your mouth and play the game. That is leadership, Bernie never spoke again and was let go the next year after the playoffs. Point is no matter if the player is right don't take it to the press. Keep it inside. We need a leader to come in and shut White's mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreye Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 In Sunday's game, the 105th of the season, the Sox used their 94th different lineup. Until last Thursday and Friday, they hadn't used the same lineup in consecutive games all year. Wow!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 Point is no matter if the player is right don't take it to the press. Keep it inside. We need a leader to come in and shut White's mouth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! certainly not now - he has the whole off season to shoot off his mouth - your entire post made great sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 How in the hell can Rick White talk when he hasn't done his Job??? Sheesh how many games has that Mutha f***er came in and gave up runs???? Or maybe the Question sould be how many games hasn't he??? Not many.. White Shut the f*** up you Loser :fyou :fyou :fyou :dips*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedPinStripes Posted July 28, 2003 Share Posted July 28, 2003 How in the hell can Rick White talk when he hasn't done his Job??? Sheesh how many games has that Mutha f***er came in and gave up runs???? Or maybe the Question sould be how many games hasn't he??? Not many.. White Shut the f*** up you Loser :fyou :fyou :fyou :dips*** Why does it matter how good he is? Valentin is pretty s***ty at the plate and he's allowed to speak up about the lineup? Someone on this team needs to speak up. We do it all the time, but it never really gets noticed till a roster member speaks up no matter who it is. PREACH ON RICK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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