Look at Ray Ray Run

100% wrong. Most scouts gave Sale's slider a 60 or 70. Law gave it a 40 and said it was not a MLB pitch. The lower grades by some from Sale were due to injury concerns - Laws concerns were 100% stuff related. I have his scouting report saved on my desktop at home somewhere. I'll have to find it. It's comically bad. Law takes bold stances against the industry to look smart if by chance he's right. He's not some uber sharp scouting personality.

So Luhnow didn't use any of the players drafted prior to his arrival? That's weird... Altuve was drafted by someone else. Keuchel - drafted by someone else. George Springer? You guessed it, drafted by someone else. He hit on Bregman and Correa - Correa was 1-1 and a lock pick at that spot. Colin Mchugh? Drafted by another GM. Marwin Gonzalez? Same, drafted before Luhnow. So if you want to give Luhnow credit for the success of the prior GM, go right ahead. Has he made sharp moves? Sure. The Cole, Verlander and etc stuff all came after the Astros started to turn the corner and win games though. He didn't lock anyone up before the success had shown itself.

Wait, so the White Sox don't get credit for Sale, Q and etc development in the big leagues because it happened in the big leagues, but they deserve the blame for Gordon Beckham not continuing his development in the big leagues? Amazing.

Floyd had a 4 year stretch with a 2.2, 4.0, 4.1, and 3.2 WAR - he was far from "below average." He didn't sustain it after that for many reasons, but he was a - WAR player before he got to the Sox. You give the White Sox zero credit for things they do well. The worst part about the Manny thing is that your pessimistic bullshit can be taken as gospel to some again.

You're one of the dopes ripping the Sox young guys for not succeeding right away. Someone asked to name one rebuild that had a pitcher like Gio and a hitter like Moncada - struggles. I pointed to Baez and Keuchel. Seems to me they're pretty good comparisons but what do I know.

Uh no Caulfield, I'm getting that from his 5.2 ERA over his first 2 MLB seasons encompassing 240 innings - with WHIPS above 1.55. He struck out 38 guys in his first 85 pro innings and walked 39.

Once again, if they are a disaster and a dumpster fire they never should have signed Manny. Period. You simply cannot argue both ways.

LOL so now the guys that did pan out - IE turning Quintana from a literal released minor league journeyman in the making into a top 20 SP in baseball, and Sale - don't count for development... John Danks was looking pretty good pre-injury. Turned Gavin Floyd into the arm everyone thought wasn't possible. Got the most out of a 98th round pick in Mark Buehrle. They've developed more starters than 90% of baseball teams.

Dallas Keuchel was almost out of baseball - he was Giolito bad his first year in the league. This forum is becoming cancerous. It's one thing to be disappointed; it's another to be overly doom and gloom about everything.

Yes, Keith Law... the same guy who stuck to Chris Sale not being a starter in the big leagues three years into his career following a 2nd in the Cy Young voting. Now people cite the guy who is the lowest of the countless sources on the Sox system and parrot him as the expert of experts.

And yet, the Astros lost MORE games during their six year stretch.

So if the White Sox sign Manny, they're on their way and everyone is rosey... but without Manny, the rebuild is a failure and they'll never succeed. So someone remind me again... why would they sign Manny if the rebuild was failing and they were in a bad place? No one has been able to answer that. Manny wasn't fixing a disaster in the making as everyone is claiming.

Javy Baez and Moncada's first full years in the big leagues were incredibly similar. The Cubs never had any real pitching prospects.

Now you're going to blast the White Sox arm development? Blahhhhhhhhhhhhh Spring Results lol. Yeah, and Lucas Giolito was the Cy Young last year after spring training. How about Carson Fulmer shows he can get AAA hitters out before we start saying he's fixed himself.

Wrong - Astros lost 88, 86, 106, 107, 111, and 92 games before they won 86 (LOL at took 3 years) Wrong - Cubs lost 87, 91, 101, 96 and 89 before they won 97 games (LOL at 3 years) I'm not even going to address the absurdity that is the Brewers comment: Everything you posted is factually wrong.

How are they having the worst results? JFC. They failed to sign Manny - in no way has their rebuild been shown to be a failure. They are in year 3 for god sakes. Let's all relax a little bit. Cubs and Astros were dumpster fires year 3.

How is Carson Fulmer blocked? The guy hasn't earned the right to fill water in the MLB with the way he's performed. Let's relax before lambasting the team for not throwing that guy out there every 5th day to throw BP.

No they dont. If you truly think this then manny machado wasnt worth signing. If you think the white Sox are in a world of hurt going forward, manny machado was never going to save that.

What are they supposed to post? Photoshop of Manny Machado fucking Kenny? They need to move on with their business.

Convincing Jerry Reinsdorf to spend 300 million on one player is like trying to convince Donald Trump that the NY Times is the best news source on the planet.

No, he literally cannot - it is against the CBA. You can't - as an executive - declare yourself out on a player. A reporter can claim it, but you can't say it as a GM.

Which is complete bullshit. Hahn knew what it would take and Jerry didn't go there. The execs of these teams always back the Chairman. It's bullshit - it was clearly Jerry who didn't want to spend the asking price.

THEY ARE OUT ON BRYCE HARPER. Jeeze, when will people accept this as fact.

not at all what he said. he said he doesn't know if it'll be this off-season or not but they will spend it on someone big... these guys just don't get it. This was the biggest fish.

They don't have to overpay. They have to pay the most - juts like all other teams!