Look at Ray Ray Run

Why would it take us out of the Harper sweepstakes? Jon Jay signed on at a 4th outfielder rate. Eloy is the only legit MLB outfielder that has to start on the roster right now. I would say it's nearly impossible that they sign both Harper and Machado, so them being out on Harper has more to do with them being the favorites for Machado, but I don't think Joc has any impact on it.

Dave is legit and has legit sources. I don't think anyone who has any inkling of involvement with the organization or the coverage of said organization would argue otherwise.

Dave isn't posting eyeballs for a Sergio Romo signing.

1 WAR does not equal 1 more team win - that's not how WAR works.

What? $ value is how trades are evaluated. It's not jibberish it's how modern baseball works. I have no idea how you derived "minor league depth is a bad thing" from that point.

To be fair, Semien graded out the same had with the Sox every year in Oakland until this past year. So it took Semien 3 years to improve with all that "coaching." Or, Semien just worked hard and bettered himself. Semien is one of the few players the Sox actually developed who turned into a decent MLB player - it seems hyper critical to attack their development of Semien.

Semien was a nothing prospect who they developed into the AA player of the year with the help of the White Sox.

One of the main points stated about Madrigal is that he was the closest person drafted to being big league ready. If he's not up until 2020 or 2021 then they evaluated him poorly as well. If neither guy sees AA this year, then this team has some big issues.

I'm not sure what this means; no one said it was easy. The point of a rebuild - this one in particular - wasn't to be competing in 2021, leaving 2-3 years of control over the majority of the marquee assets we acquired with our deals.

I mean, it's not as if Seattle has the best history in the world of developing catchers. Not sure they should be throwing stones in their glass house over there.

12 months; this means entering spring training next year, every one of those guys should be fighting for a spot.

How are they not ready. They are accruing MLB service time - Moncada and Kopech were in the Major Leagues. How is that not ready? My goodness. Not being stars does not mean they are not ready. If they aren't ready, what are they doing in the big leagues?

Palka and Delmonico are no more part of the future than Jay and Alonso. Guys, Palka and Delmonico are very bad baseball players.

This doesn't even account for the fact that Giolito and Lopez were also MLB ready (Although, IMO, if Gio is ready then this is bad). Every single major asset they traded Q, Sale and Eaton for were within two years of being Big League ready, and 5 of them were arguably ready when they were acquired. To say this rebuild should take 5 years is horribly misguided

In the next twelve months? Some of the following names better be making appearances or pushing their way into the conversation: Cease Robert Madrigal Dunning Collins Zavala The expected arrivals for 18 of the top 30 was 2018 or 2019 - some got pushed back due to injury, or lack of progress - but if we're talking 2020 before the majority of these guys even make an appearance then that's a problem - given that it will be year 3 of Moncada already, Timmy will be nearing the end of his deal, Kopech will be without two years, and Eloy will be 3 years closer to his exit as well.

Years away? As I have noted, their 4 MAIN assets, were AA and AAA ready players. They were all less than two years from MLB ready. Eloy - ready last year. Cease - ready this year. Kopech - ready last year. Moncada - ready two years ago. The Sox could spend however much they want. The argument otherwise is absurd. MLB is swimming in cash, the White Sox as well. They have plenty of money to spend. They use to run payrolls in the top 5 of baseball - they are capable of doing it. Don't buy the small market nonsense. The Cubs have a bigger following outside the Chicago Metro area, but in this area the city is split (AT WORST) 55/45. The Sox aren't a small market team.

Man do I hate these comments. No one is saying to take a shortcut. 85 wins, btw, could win the division. People are saying it's time to start adding MLB pieces to a team that is going to have a lot of youthful pieces coming up over the next 12 months.

The Cubs didn't trade 3 of the best assets in baseball to acquire their youth. They didn't trade for a plethora of already established MiLB prospects. They drafted well, made some FA signings, and a couple of great trade. Everyone who compares these two rebuilds completely ignores the fact that the White Sox had a head start given the assets they moved to acquire their talent.

How is Pollock much more valuable than Pederson? Since Pederson has entered the league he's accumulated 10.1 WAR in 4 years, in that same window Pollock has accumulated 12 WAR. Pollock is 3 years older, and hasn't been healthy for a full season since 2015.

Jeeze, I'd like to be the GM of a team that says go ahead and take 5 years to rebuild - even though the 4 main assets you traded for were less than 2 years from big league ready. (Cease, Kopech, Moncada and Eloy). You don't trade for guys that are ready to play AA and AAA baseball, and then waste three years of their control on bad baseball teams. That's not how rebuilds work. Young guys should be coming up to compliment the pieces they add this year and next.

Well, if the Sox aren't competitive in 2020 then this has gone horribly wrong. If it's 2021 before the Sox even contend for the postseason, then their rebuild took 6 years and has no sustainability of youth, and was a failure given the pieces they traded to kick this thing off.

Cheap free agents are cheap because they aren't expected to produce between 2.5-3.5 WAR. There are currently zero position players on the market (not named Manny/Bryce) that are expected to produce that kind of output. What separates a successful rebuild from an unsuccessful one is the GM being able to evaluate his own prospects and trade the right ones for viable Major League talent. Hahn has seen these guys more than anyone else - he needs to decide who is going to pan out and who isn't and dump the ones with less expectations while they still have value.

The White Sox currently own ZERO automobiles that work. They have 30 of them in the shop, being worked on to hopefully win a race, but none of them have ever won a race before - most of them have never even participated. Joc has won races and participated and adding him to the shop adds one guaranteed asset to a group of none. The number one thing so many people are struggling to grasp is that prospects are volatile. If the plan is to wait for all your prospects to contend, and to add one good MLB player (Machado) then you're setting yourself up for failure. You need to compliment the young talent with proven, quality, veterans. Joc is exactly that.

Yes, but the 2020 WAR for Pederson is more valuable than any FV WAR expected from Rutherford in 2022. By that time, you've cycled through more prospects and Rutherfords impact becomes even less valuable. FV is all about organizational cycles with trades - Rutherford is far from the majors, and has a log jam of superior (currently) talent in front of him. You have to account for the difference between Rutherford and the organizations next options, which one could easily argue are greater than Rutherford but that same argument can not be made for Pederson. The odds of the prospects outperforming Pederson is significantly less than it is that they outperform Rutherford. I also couldn't disagree with you more on 2019 WAR being worthless; that's pure nonsense. As I have stated, this year needs to trend upward; this team needs to take significant steps forward. Now is the time to do so. There's value to Pederson because he's a good MLB player and this team needs to add a few of those because last year they had zero players as good as Joc Pederson. That's a problem. You can't expect your prospects to fill out every hole in the organization. That's a pipe dream that is very unlikely to come to fruition.