Controlled Chaos

You must have been in one of those 1950 redneck towns I read about earlier.

I'm curious of the different voting techniques... Where I voted in DuPage county. It was a simple scantron kind of thing. They give ya a black pen and you fill in the circle. It seems like you couldn't go wrong with that...It is as simple as it gets. I was wondering why they dont just simplify it everywhere...Avoid the "chads" all together. Anyway how did you vote??

Steff please don't joke around like that...I can see the headline of the NY times now.... PRESIDENT BUSH ORDERS PILOTS TO SHOOT AT SCHOOLS.

Ok - Good talk

CC DID NOT say "all NY Dem voters are elitist." I specifically went out of my way to tell you I did't say that and you just repeated that I did AGAIN. Please get your facts straight. Even the point mreye has been making about the comma should tell you I was discussing two seperate things.

In New York :end thought: I think :end thought: Elitist people :end thought: Poor people :end thought: or otherwise people :end thought: all have the same disdain :end thought: for republicans :end thought: and yes I think most Dems in NY are alike, and Dems elsewhere are different. Democrats elsewhere don't have the pompusness. They are not in shock that there is another view out there that may have some validity. They don't agree with the view, but acknowledge it's valid to it's believers.

NOT ANYMORE I heard Backman was Fired...I can't confirm Her'es an article relating to why Debacle further darkens tarnished team image Dan Bickley The Arizona Republic Nov. 4, 2004 12:00 AM When buying a blast furnace, a question usually leaps to mind: How hot does this thing get? The Diamondbacks never thought to ask when it came to Wally Backman. Pretty hot, in case they are still wondering. Backman has been the manager for three days, and incredibly, his résumé keeps expanding. Tuesday brought the DUI conviction, the tax liens and the domestic incident with his current wife. Wednesday brought news that his ex-wife slapped him with a restraining order on Halloween 1995, claiming a few bumps and bruises along the way. Can't wait for today's revelation. If these are all hazy memories that make a changed man shudder, this must be a trying time for Backman, a man so yearning for his return to the big leagues. On Tuesday, he said he was sorry. He also said the domestic incident involving his current wife (allegedly making threats, allegedly busting down the door) was nothing, and certainly not his fault if it were. Let's just say the police report reads a little differently, and leave it at that. Except for the sorry part. Is he, really? Or just sorry this is all finding its way into the newspaper? During their emergency team meeting on Tuesday, Backman came clean with his new bosses. He blamed the bankruptcy filing in 2003 on his ex-wife. The spat with the current wife and her friend was just an alcohol-fueled misunderstanding, and by way of proof, he showed them his weekend itinerary: He will be elk hunting with the husband of the woman that hit him with the baseball bat. So, really, how bad could it have been? As for the restraining order that resurfaced Wednesday? Backman said that, too, was bogus. Maybe none of this is his fault. Some guys always find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. Some guys hit into a lot of tough luck. As manager of the Bend Bandits in the Western Baseball League, Backman once was bit on the head by a brown recluse spider, and the bite almost killed him. It's also unfair to judge a man simply by tracing his footsteps in his earlier life. Backman earned all the accolades that came with his performance at Class A Lancaster last season. While the six ejections and two suspensions should have raised a few eyebrows, California League president Joe Gagliardi said Backman was merely "more aggressive than most guys we get in here." For now, the Diamondbacks are standing by their manager. But they have their own bloodhounds out. The contract hasn't been signed. If this gets any worse, the gig could be up before it got started. Or maybe it all goes away with time. Problem is, this isn't even about Backman. This is about an organization in decline and how another defining moment in Diamondbacks' history - hiring the manager that will lead them back to prominence - turned into another episode of amateur hour. How do the Diamondbacks trade Curt Schilling for damaged goods? How do they hire Backman - a manager who came with more than a few whispers - and get caught unaware? Don't job applications ask if you've been to jail? Meanwhile, if Richie Sexson and Randy Johnson decide that they want out in the coming weeks, both departures could be linked to this embarrassing episode. They can't be blamed for wondering a little bit about their new manager: Do I want to play for this guy? The perception is dark, the credibility crisis is under way and the Diamondbacks officially may touch rock bottom in the coming months. And if you're wondering, Jerry Colangelo is in his seat across the street, happily watching a basketball team.

Look dude go back and read my words...not your responses...I never said "elitist poor" I also never said all democrat voters are elitist. My wife is a democrat. My postings were about the people in New York. I can't speak for everyone else, but I do not think that all Democrats are like NY Democrats. Most people I have met from NY have the same personality as the people that made those quotes. They feel some superiority to everyone.

No I'm not saying that...I'm saying that they all feel the same way toward republicans and they all have that "there is no way somebody thinks differnt from me" attitude. Elitist, poor or otherwise....

It's not really sterotyping when 83.3% of people in Manhattan and the Bronx feel that way.

Look I haven't gloated yet....and I'm not gloating now, but just who the f*** does the people think they are. It's that typical elitist attitude that if you don't agree with them you must be a moron. I love these quotes: "Everybody seems to hate us these days," said Zito Joseph, a 63-year-old retired psychiatrist. "None of the people who are likely to be hit by a terrorist attack voted for Bush. But the heartland people seemed to be saying, 'We're not affected by it if there would be another terrorist attack.' " This from a shrink?? Everyone hates you?? I think this shrink needs to see his own shrink. The whole f***in country stood shoulder to shoulder with you...Volunteers from all over came and helped..people all over cried and felt your pain...and you think they hate you cause they didn't vote for your canidate....ungrateful asshole. "I'm saddened by what I feel is the obtuseness and shortsightedness of a good part of the country - the heartland," Dr. Joseph said. "This kind of redneck, shoot-from-the-hip mentality and a very concrete interpretation of religion is prevalent in Bush country - in the heartland." Thanks Doc, so pretty much you're saying if I voted for Bush I'm stupid. I hate to bust this guys balls, but there ARE smart, educated Republicans. Republicans are not all redneck shoot from the hip types. Talk of shortsightedness, this person can't see beyond his own beliefs. He thinks it's impossible that educated people would vote for Bush. This is why these people don't see the media bias...It's cause they can't even fathom any other view point...they dont see anything wrong cause it's they're view they are watching. If there is another view point...it must just be because those people are dumb. They don't see it like I do...They must be rednecks. Sorry buddy....that's not how it works!!! "New Yorkers are more sophisticated and at a level of consciousness where we realize we have to think of globalization, of one mankind, that what's going to injure masses of people is not good for us," he said Don't confuse sophistication with popmosity. I'm quite sure my level of consciousness and sophistication is right along lines with you...I JUST DON'T SHARE YOUR POLITICAL BELIEFS. Why is it so hard to get?? I am not below you in any way cause I don't believe what you believe. This country has different opinions...it's part of what makes it great. "New Yorkers are savvy," she said. "We have street smarts. Whereas people in the Midwest are more influenced by what their friends say." "They're very 1950's," she said of Midwesterners. "When I go back there, I feel I'm in a time warp." You're not savvy lady. Let me give you a definition... sav·vy - Well informed and perceptive. That is definitely not you if you think that Bush supporters don't have street smarts. We are not all hillbilly's that get our information from friends at the Winn Dixie. Just in Illinois, DuPage, Kane, Lake, McHenry all went Bush. These aren't 1950's towns with a population of 3000. Heck, I'll bet if you check most people in those counties are pretty dam smart. Can you believe it?? A smart person that doesn't share your opinion. If you can't see the arrogance of these people then you are blind!!!

Happy B-day Yas!! You're a great poster!! Not poster like in the sense that I have an oversized picture of you on my wall either....

We'll agree to disagree. I didn't think it was a waste of time....it gave an inside look at the country's take as opposed to what we saw on the media a few months back. They took the time to show that the majority of people think a marriage should be between a man and a woman. On your second point...all I can say is I hope you're wrong. Only time will tell.

Yeah Wong it's an Urban Myth. I got an email about it a couple weeks ago and researched it....Snopes found it false. http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/flushot.asp

Well as the numbers show...a LOT of people believe a marriage is between a man and a woman. I can take your argument and just switch one word and make the same argument... if the rights & priviledges were made exactly the same, why not just call it a civil union ? If the institutions are legally identical, why go to all this trouble over exactly what word is used in the text of the law? What I think is important are benefits, tax breaks etc... not which word is used to commemorate their commitment.

For someone who used to be a good poster that made valid points and who I'm not ashamed to admit, took me to task many times, Tex you have turned into an asshole that consistently posts stereotypes and generalizations against those with differing opinions. Not to mention the completely assine remarks such as "go abuse an Iraqi prisoner" or "tie a homosexual to a tree" It's f***in classless!!

Yeah, but it was hardly in the press. That picture would have hurt Kerry and the press knows it.

Alexandra Kerry Pic XXX, well not really, but ya can see for those who care http://www.chickenmcnugget.com/pics/Kerry_Daughter.jpg

I don't know...I couldn't find where he switched religions, but either way I take "devout" as meaning devoted to his religion...whether it be for his whole life or just the past two years. Yeah you are a devout white sox fan if you are devoted to them winning

I think "moral issues" means more than just two gay guys gettin married, but that's just my opinion. Either way like I said earlier...Bush has the opportunity to set some guidelines for civil unions and it needs to be done.

This article seems to touch on some different values and morals of the canidates...The article itself is about voting in Maine, but I think it is well written and can be applied everywhere. Moral values seen as key election issue By JEN FISH, Portland Press Herald Writer For Barbara Collins of Windham, Sen. John Kerry's decision to throw away his military ribbons to protest the Vietnam War said enough about his values to determine her vote for President Bush. But to Thomas Mutty of Lewiston, Kerry's war record is not as important as his belief that Kerry is the more honest of the two candidates. Both Mutty and Collins say the personal values of the presidential candidates will influence whom they vote for on Nov. 2. Whether values means honesty or patriotism, religious or moral teachings, the question of how the presidential candidates' principal beliefs affect their decisions or positions makes a difference to voters, experts say. Sixty-four percent of voters say the issue of "moral values" will be very important in their vote, according to a survey last month by the Pew Research Center and the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. Some political analysts believe this election hinges on values, and the candidate who manages to convince Maine voters that he shares their values will win the state's four electoral votes. "To win, (both candidates) have to be very, very careful," said John Green, a political science professor at the University of Akron in Ohio and author of a study exploring the relationship between politics and religion. "They have to stress the value issues to turn out their base," he said. "But they have to do that in a way that they don't turn off the middle." This task could prove difficult in a state where many residents hold a mix of what would be considered liberal and conservative values. Maine residents pride themselves on a strong sense of community and family. They respect but hold a healthy skepticism of government. And they strive to maintain their sense of individuality. Maine is also a state that has had two independent governors in the past three decades and a congressional delegation that is evenly split between the two major parties. The difficulty in discussing values, said Mark Brewer, a University of Maine political science professor, is that "values" means different things to different people. "(People) tend to immediately jump to questions that are linked to religious teaching or religious doctrines," he said. "The term values doesn't mean that to everyone." Barbara Collins has two sons who are officers in the U.S. Marine Corps. To her, the way in which Kerry chose to protest Vietnam conflicts with her own personal experiences and beliefs. "That should have been a private thing," she said. "You don't throw mud at all our men and boys that died just because he was unhappy with the war." In terms of religious values, Brewer said, a person's religious beliefs can have a profound effect on whom they vote for. But for the most part, that part of the electorate is mostly locked up because each candidate has been fairly clear about where he stands on policies linked to religion, such as abortion or gay marriage. Bush, a devout Methodist who says he reads the Bible every day, appeals to voters like Patricia Martin of Bangor, who gravitated to the Republican Party in part because of her own religious beliefs as a Catholic. Martin said she shares the president's opposition to abortion, gay marriage and his support of voluntary prayer in schools. Kerry, who is also Catholic, she said, "is making a mockery of his religion." "I hate to be judgmental because I'm not God," she said. "But he doesn't seem to have the moral standards that I believe the majority of Catholics have." But there are other voters who believe that religion should be kept out of politics. Tom St. Amand of Kennebunk says Bush's religious views as they relate to policy have turned him off to the president. "There's a place for it and it's not the headline of your press releases," he said. St. Amand said he will vote for Kerry because he believes Kerry is the more thoughtful candidate, who weighs his decisions more carefully. "I'm sure they're both good men, but it goes beyond that," he said. "What's the deliberative process?" Curt Mildner, president of Market Decisions in South Portland, believes that the way each candidate approaches problems and how that approach leads to solutions could be the value that decides the election. Bush, he said, tends to define issues as either right or wrong with little room for circumstances or nuance. As an example, Mildner cited Bush's comments during the lead-up to the Iraq war, when Bush portrayed Saddam Hussein as an evil dictator who must be dealt with as a matter of national security. Conversely, Kerry embraces a more fluid approach, in essence saying that "right and wrong is simple, but circumstances aren't," said Mildner. Kerry, he said, seems to take the view that, yes, Saddam was an evil person, but the United States was wrong to act unilaterally. These two value systems, Mildner said, explain the perceptions of each candidate. To his supporters, Bush is a strong, decisive leader. To his detractors, he is seen as "a cowboy who shoots from the hip," Mildner said. On the other side, Kerry's approach wins him points with some voters who believe that he is the more thoughtful and intellectual of the two candidates. But to Kerry's detractors, this contemplative approach has led some to believe Kerry is indecisive or a "flip-flopper." Bush's approach, meanwhile, is unappealing to voters such as William Leffler of Kennebunkport, a financial planner and retired rabbi. "Everything for (Bush) is either good or evil and right and wrong," he said. "He doesn't seem to understand that a difference of opinion is quite legitimate." Staff Writer Jen Fish can be contacted at 282-8229 or at: [email protected] 1/3 1/3 1/2

You conceited ass......dam democrats are all the same!!!

I'm not sure where it was specified that people were more concerned about two gay guys getting married rather than war, terrorism, unemployment, medical costs or tuition costs combined. I don't know why you have to pen it like that except that you're just angry at the outcome. It was a vote. The people voted on it....and came up with a unanimous decision. It's a far cry from what most people believed to be true considering all the coverage the faux gay marriages and protests received awhile back. I'm sure most people believed the majority supported it. The bills spoke volumes here. We didn't just get a gilimpse of what some judge or protestor thought was right...we got a glimpse of what the country wants, with a legitimate vote. Now one of the things I think Bush needs to do right now is some kid of model for civil unions. I do think it is an important issue.. just as is war, terrorism etc. How things work in our country are important issues. It will still be up to the states to decide policy, but Bush needs to give a guide as well as a nudge to states to invoke some kind of plan. Committed homosexuals deserve the same rights that married couples receive.

I really wasn't asking the question...it was just the title of the article and I though it was a good read....

IT LOOKS GOOD, BUT IS IT OVER? With 100% of the precincts reporting, George Bush has won Ohio by 145,098 votes. That's right, 145,000 votes. The Poodle's campaign won't concede because of desperation and sour grapes, but if they think they're going to win Ohio, it ain't gonna happen. All of this seems to hang on the so-called "provisional ballots." Many of these are ballots were cast by people that were too dense to actually show up at the right precinct to vote. Some were filled out by people who may not have the right to vote, including people who were not registered. A certain amount of those ballots will be disqualified. The estimates on the number of these ballots is 175,000. If you work on the assumption that (1) all the provisional ballots will be allowed, and (2) those ballots will fall within 5% of mirroring the Ohio vote, there is no way that Kerry can come close to erasing the 145,000 deficit. If you're a leftist, things don't look good. Ditto if you're an Islamic terrorist. I guess that this all means that I was wrong. Not real wrong. Not embarrassingly wrong ... but wrong nonetheless. Yesterday I was predicting that The Poodle would win. Well it sure doesn't look that way right now. Something extremely odd and extraordinary would have to happen to turn things around right now. You do know, don't you, that if the situation were reversed in Ohio ... if it was John Kerry instead of George Bush leading by 145,098 votes, Kerry and his media myrmidons would be declaring a complete Kerry victory and demanding Bush concede. Last night The Poodle sent out The Breck Girl to announce that every vote would be counted. Well, every vote has been counted, and Ohio goes to Bush. Kerry has a chance to show a bit of class here. His advisors are telling him that the game is over. He should concede and allow the process to go forward. THOSE OHIO PROVISIONAL VOTES Your Talkmaster has pulled out his calculator and played with the provisional ballots in Ohio. The Bush margin of victory in Ohio is 145,000 votes. The largest number I've heard for Ohio provisional ballots is 250,000. The actual figure is probably around 175,000, but we're going to play with the 250,000 number just to fudge for Kerry. So ... 250,000 provisional ballots. In the last Ohio election 90% of all provisional ballots were allowed. So we'll go with that figure and say that 225,000 of these ballots will be allowed. How many of these votes will be for Kerry? Past experience in Ohio shows that the provisional ballots generally run pretty close to the percentages in the general vote. But .... again let' s fudge for Kerry. Let's add 5% to his vote total of 48%. We'll say that 53% of the provisional ballots that will be counted were votes for John Kerry. That would give Kerry 119,250 additional votes, and still make him about 25,000 votes short. Back to that 90% figure .. .the 90% of provisional ballots that were counted in the last Ohio election. Since that time the restrictions on just which provisional ballots will count have been tightened. These new rules make that 90% total highly improbable --- making a Kerry victory in Ohio a pipe dream. We will give Kerry this. He did carry his home state. That's something Al Gore couldn't do. I don't know that there's any bragging rights that come with carrying Massachusetts though. George McGovern did it. YOU DO KNOW THAT THIS IS A RECORD, DON'T YOU? With 95% of precincts reporting nationwide Bush has almost 57 million popular votes. This is a record popular vote for any presidential candidate in the history of the nation. Now I know that the popular vote is a Constitutionally irrelevant figure ... but the Democrats were sure proud of the fact that Gore won the popular vote in 2000. Let's see if they give Bush the same props. Oh ... by the way, Bush also got the majority of the popular vote. That's something Bill Clinton was never able to do. SORRY AMERICA .. BUT HERE SHE COMES AGAIN Yesterday's election wasn't a total wash for Islamic jihadists. The voters of Georgia's 4th Congressional District have seen fit to send Cynthia McKinney back to the Congress. Denise Majette, the woman who clobbered Cynthia a few years ago, got the big head and decided that she was ready for the U.S. Senate. The voters in Georgia had other ideas. While Majette was tilting at windmills Cynthia ran for her old seat and won. This is not good news for the residents of Georgia's 4th District. Yes .. they are sending the cutest little Jihadist in Congress back to Washington, but just what is she going to do once she gets there? Cynthia has been and will be regarded as a loose cannon .. someone not to be taken seriously. She'll spend the next two years running seminars in her district teaching people how to sign up for the Earned Income Tax Credit and a good bit of time claiming that Bush has a cure for cancer but he's negotiating to sell it to Halliburton. When it comes to any major congressional initiative, McKinney is toast. She simply doesn't have the respect of the other members of Congress to have any real impact on policy or to move her initiatives forward. DEMOCRATIC DEFEATS WIDESPREAD As if the president's victory wasn't enough, Democrats were soundly defeated all over the country. Right at the top was Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle getting knocked off by John Thune. The Republican edge in the Senate now stands at 53. The Republican majority in the House also remained. I take special pleasure in the defeat of Tom Daschle. This is the man who engineered a Senate filibuster of a judicial nominee that had the majority vote needed for confirmation. This has never happened before. Hopefully Bush will place those names in the hopper again and see if the Democrats are still in a filibustering mood. The vote was close, to be sure, but once again the ideals of the modern Democratic party have been soundly defeated at the polls. Tom Daschle, the symbol of liberal obstructionism in Washington DC has gotten the boot. The Republicans picked up seats in the Senate. The Democratic party is the party of Michael Moore, George Soros and a bevy of disgruntled movie and rock stars. Now they see their politics soundly rejected. The terrorist-appeasing, Bush-bashing, lie-telling Democratic party is being sent to the showers. BUT THERE'S NO REST FOR THE WEARY One of the happiest people in the nation today must be Hillary Clinton .. the Hildabeast. Ninety seconds after Kerry concedes this election the Democrats will begin work on 2008, and Hillary will be at the center of all their plans. In my estimation Hillary remains the single most dangerous politician in the United States today. Her college professors who branded her a socialist knew their stuff. In fact, they were probably praising her, not condemning her. The 2008 nomination is Hillary's if she wants it. The Republicans? Anybody's guess. Jeb? I don't think so. MEDIA VOTING MYTHS NOWHERE TO BE FOUND How many times did we hear running up to the election about supposed voter intimidation, widespread voting problems and overall mayhem at the polls? The fear-mongering by the left and the media was off the charts. So what happened? Nothing...zippo. There were no widespread reports of intimidation and no supposed "disenfranchisement." The machines worked, people waited to vote, and the votes have been counted. So what about the turnout? The youth vote didn't really make that big of a difference either. These were the supposed large groups of people being driven to the polls by Moveon.org and other groups, and it never materialized. Exit polling done for the AP shows only one in ten votes attributed to the youth vote. And of those youths, while most of them were Democrats, Bush still had some support. The Democrats are not the only ones discredited by this election. The media came up way short too. Ain't that nice. RANDOM THOUGHTS You gotta love this. Tom Daschle, the man who engineered the Democratic filibusters of President Bush's judicial nominations, has been defeated in South Dakota. Now the Democrats have to chose a new minority leader. I won $100 from ace nationally syndicated consumer advocate Clark Howard. He bet me that Bush would win by more than 330 Electoral votes. He's going to hate handing that money over. It looks like Ralph Nader wasn't a factor in this election with his paltry 1% of the vote. Actually, this is bad news for the Democrats. They aren't going to have the meaningless popular vote canard to throw around, and they can't blame Nader for Kerry's loss. Well ... they do have Cynthia McKinney to celebrate. In at least two states where Democratic Senatorial candidates tried to demagogue their Republican opponents over the Fair Tax, the Democrats lost. Good news. So, let's get on with some tax reform. Georgia adopted a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. I voted no on that one. I can't see voting to deny someone else the opportunity to do something that deprives nobody of their right to life, liberty or property through either force or fraud. I don't care who lives with whom and what they want to call themselves. Hollywood has done more to damage the institution of marriage in this country than a gay couple ever could. Perky Katie Couric isn't so perky today. She's dressed in black. Go figure.