South Side Hit Men
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Posts posted by South Side Hit Men
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2 hours ago, soxfan49 said:
Eloy might be on the roster but to keep lumping him into threads about "too many DH's, etc" is kind of worthless. He'll be back and take someone's PA's for a few weeks until he pulls up at 1st holding his hammy or stretching his shoulder after sliding into 3rd, and then someone much more deserving can step right back in
Just trying to put together a logical scenario for playing time. Think it makes sense to keep starting players to one outfield position to avoid issues with communication or possible injuries (Sheets/Eloy RF only, can’t platoon Sheets with Benintendi).
What will likely happen IMO is Sheets and Eloy will split RF close 5/5, Burger getting 7 DH (Eloy 3-4) and Burger with 1-2 3B starts. 10th DH rotate for regulars to rest.
It would be asinine to play Burger outside of 3B (he should work on trying to cover 1B either for trade value or here value) as some have suggested (OF,2B) or move long time starters (the time for transitioning would have been October-March).
Nobody knows how long Burger will remain this hot, would definitely listen to trade offers for him if not contending in June/July. Don’t see the Sox as buyers unless they are over .500 at the ASB and are drawing well in June/July, and even then it will likely be bullshit Hahn buying like 2020 (Garbage - Dyson) or 2021-22 (trade youth for likely bad old guys).
The catcher / pitcher pairings are far more important than trying to get Grandal’s better bat in the lineup, and if keep others through the playoffs to ensure pitchers are at their peak (rotation would be Giolito/SZ, Cease /SZ, Lynn/YG, Kopech/YG). Could see Sheets possibly platooning with Vaughn in a playoff scenario as well.
Kopech had his great start with Zavala on Friday. Grandal really only matches up well with Lynn because he doesn’t have to worry about trying to catch/frame breaking balls. Don’t really know or care about Clevinger’s pairing, as he’s not a playoff starter baring injury or just a collapse by one of the likely four.
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Will set aside a Colas return, which makes more sense long term for his development and the roster, for another day .
Ten Game Rotation (facing on average 3 LHS, 7 RHS):
Rotation: 1. Giolito (SZ); 2. Kopech (YG); 3. Cease (SZ); 4. Lynn (YG); 5. Clevinger (YG)
Player Position Allocations:
Player Age Bats: Games Position (Games and Career Platoon OPS splits)
- (5) Hanser Alberto 30 R: 5 2B (2 R .591, 3 L .799)
- (9) Tim Anderson 30 R: 9 SS (6 R .715, 3 L .866)
- (6) Elvis Andrus 34 R: 5 2B (5 R .684); 1 SS (1 R .684)
- (9) Andrew Benintendi 28 L: 9 LF (7 R .800, 2 L .712)
- (8) Jake Burger 27 R: 7 DH (5 R .801 2 L .994) 1 3B (1 L .994)
- (6) Yasmani Grandal 34 S: 6 Catcher (Clevinger, Kopech, Lynn)
- (8) Eloy Jimenez 26 R: 7 RF (4 R .842. 3 L .772); 1 DH (1 L .772)
- (9) Yoan Moncada 28 S: 9 3B (7 R .779, 2 L .712)
- (9) Luis Robert Junior 25 R: 9 CF (6 R .761, 3 L 1.034)
- (7) Gavin Sheets 27 L: 3 RF; 2 1B; 2 DH (All vs. R .788)
- (8) Andrew Vaughn 25 R: 8 1B (5 R .705, 3 L .816)
- (4) Seby Zavala 29 R: 4 Catcher (Cease, Giolito)
- (2) Billy Hamilton 32 R: 1 CF (1 R .625) 1 LF (1 L .598)
Playoff Lineups:
vs. RH Starter
- LF Andrew Benintendi (L) .800
- CF Luis Robert Junior (R) .761
- 3B Yoan Moncada (S) .779
- RF Eloy Jimenez (R) .842
- DH Jake Burger (R) .801
- C Yasmani Grandal (S) .782
- 1B Andrew Vaughn (R) .705
- SS Tim Anderson (R) .715
- 2B Elvis Andrus (R) .684 (C Zavala .633 - AV #6, TA #7, EA #8)
Backups: (R1) Catcher, DH 1B (R2) Sheets; 2B (R3) Alberto; SS Andrus; 3B Burger; All OF/PR (R4) Hamilton
vs. LH Starter
- SS Tim Anderson (R) .866
- CF Luis Robert Junior (R) 1.034
- 3B Yoan Moncada (S) .712
- RF Eloy Jimenez (R) .772
- DH Jake Burger (R) .994
- C Yasmani Grandal (S) .797
- 1B Andrew Vaughn (R) .816
- LF Andrew Benintendi (L) .712
- 2B Elvis Andrus (R) .721 (C Zavala .598 - AV #6, AB #7, HA #8)
Backups: (R1) Catcher, DH 1B (R2) Sheets; 2B (R3) Alberto; SS Andrus; 3B Burger; All OF/PR (R4) Hamilton
Catcher Data (Games OPS / ERA):
- Giolito: Zavala (24 .672 / 3.76) over Grandal (30 .731 / 4.45)
- Kopech: Grandal (28 .744 / 4.14) over Zavala (21 .725 / 4.88)
- Cease: Zavala (25 .546 / 2.06) over Grandal (40 .728 / 4.48)
- Lynn: Grandal (29 .635 / 3.09) over Zavala (20 .754 / 5.20)
- Clevinger: Grandal (8 .791 / 3.99) over Zavala (3 .742 / 7.00)
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1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:
Still need a STARTER at 2B.
At this point, they will need to muddle through with Anderson and Andrus, and hope for the best. There are no unsigned FAs that can help at this point.
Not having a 2021 level Leury Garcia is killing this club far more than is stated, was so valuable filling in throughout all the necessary positions and was cromulent fielding.
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They are taking care of the teams they should be beating / are better than. Their pitching has been the major reason.
If they can win a few series against average / decent teams, starting with their week on the road, they can start gaining confidence and perhaps playing better.
Their first challenging stretch will be @ Los Angeles Dodgers and Seattle, than home to face Texas and Boston.
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23 minutes ago, wegner said:
I was looking at that upcoming schedule and thought hey they could get back in this thing.....and yes I know I have a problem.
If Lynn and Kopech can pitch well, and that acquisition can pitch 5 innings / game, their pitching is OK.
If they could acquire a legitimate backup infielder and starting RFer, this team would be capable of contending.
13 minutes ago, greg775 said:I think we should support TA instead of tear into him a lot. Just my opinion. According to some reports he's playing hurt which we want Sox to do oft times rather than go on the DL regularly. Maybe he's headed back to the DL soon.
I think we all know Anderson is a good baseball player. Personally I see no reason to bash him. There are plenty of villains. I don't think he's one of them. Just my opinion. I'm not a huge TA fan. I just recognize he's not the problem IMO. Why not try something diff and support him a few more months.
Agree, hopefully he can be fully healthy and bounce back this season. Abreu and Tim have been the best players by far through last season. Robert is the new leader, but Anderson is a key either for the Sox the next two seasons or for a solid return if he is traded.
I'll criticize contracts, but not players who do the best they can based on health and ability (with rare exceptions). It's why I focus on ownership and GM, they are responsible for acquiring, developing and fielding a team.
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Updated in today's game thread. Rightfield performance during the White Sox "Multi-Championship" Window.
Trying to salvage Colas is the only logical step at this point. Would likely be far better for his development working directly with Grifol like Robert has versus pwning AAA pitching and learning nothing.
Games Started Player Salary Overall bWAR
Cumulative Negative bWAR for Projected starters through yesterday -1.3
2023 Rightfield - Projected Starter Oscar Colas
- 18 Colas $0.7M -0.9
- 16 Sheets $0.7M 0.3
- 4 Haseley $0.7M 0.1
- 4 Gonzalez $0.7M -1.0
- 3 Jimenez $10.3M 0.2
- 1 Marisnick $0.7M 0.0
2022 Rightfield - Projected Starter A.J. Pollock
- 78 Sheets $0.7M -0.4
- 39 Vaughn $0.7M -0.2
- 27 Engel $2.0M 0.0
- 11 Pollock $14.5M -0.3
- 5 Garcia $5.5M -1.0
- 1 Haseley $0.7M 0.1
- 1 Gonzalez $0.7M -0.3
2021 Rightfield - Projected Starter A. Eaton
- 48 Eaton $8.0M 0.0
- 33 Goodwin $0.7M -0.5
- 28 Garcia $3.5M 2.1
- 14 Vaughn $0.7M 0.1
- 11 Sheets $0.7M 0.2
- 8 Engel $1.4M 1.5
- 8 Lamb $1.0M 0.0
- 7 Mendick $0.7M -0.4
- 2 R. Gonzalez $0.7M -0.1
- 2 L. Gonzalez $0.7M 0.1
- 1 Hamilton $1.0M -0.1
2020 Rightfield - Projected Starter N. Mazara
- 38 Mazara $5.6M -0.1
- 16 Engel $0.6M 0.6
- 4 Delmanico $0.6M -0.4
- 1 Garcia $3.3M 0.7
- 1 Dyson $2.0M -0.1
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31 minutes ago, wegner said:
When you have a passed ball on a called strike, how does that affect a Catchers pitch framing statistics?
Grandal's agent created Fangraphs to con Hahn.
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Just now, Capn12 said:
A team this putrid on offense, can't punt an OF position for defense over offense. Gavin is good enough, for now, until the organization gets its head out of its ass and realizes Colas is the right option. This team is proving it right now, you can't set up your offense with 3 automatic outs at the bottom of the order, when the top 6 have their own share of problems.
Haesley has no business starting a MLB game, ever. If it is because Gavin is hurting after the slide yesterday, then sure. But normally, Haesley is about as useful as Romy Gonzalez, and that isn't a compliment.
Let's face it, we are quibbling about what garbage options Grifol has this season. The pitching is keeping the White Sox in ballgames, and it's too taking to allow 4 and 5 outs across multiple innings with hacks in RF throughout their "multi-championship contention window".
I rather have Colas working with Grifol and making progress both hitting and in the field. Sheets is a negative career player in RF, Haseley AAAA. No reason to piss away $75M on a worthless LF position you can actually get by on and let RF go for yet another season.
Games Started Player Salary Overall bWAR
Cumulative Negative bWAR for Projected starters through yesterday -1.3
2023 Rightfield - Projected Starter Oscar Colas
- 18 Colas $0.7M -0.9
- 16 Sheets $0.7M 0.3
- 4 Haseley $0.7M 0.1
- 4 Gonzalez $0.7M -1.0
- 3 Jimenez $10.3M 0.2
- 1 Marisnick $0.7M 0.0
2022 Rightfield - Projected Starter A.J. Pollock
- 78 Sheets $0.7M -0.4
- 39 Vaughn $0.7M -0.2
- 27 Engel $2.0M 0.0
- 11 Pollock $14.5M -0.3
- 5 Garcia $5.5M -1.0
- 1 Haseley $0.7M 0.1
- 1 Gonzalez $0.7M -0.3
2021 Rightfield - Projected Starter A. Eaton
- 48 Eaton $8.0M 0.0
- 33 Goodwin $0.7M -0.5
- 28 Garcia $3.5M 2.1
- 14 Vaughn $0.7M 0.1
- 11 Sheets $0.7M 0.2
- 8 Engel $1.4M 1.5
- 8 Lamb $1.0M 0.0
- 7 Mendick $0.7M -0.4
- 2 R. Gonzalez $0.7M -0.1
- 2 L. Gonzalez $0.7M 0.1
- 1 Hamilton $1.0M -0.1
2020 Rightfield - Projected Starter N. Mazara
- 38 Mazara $5.6M -0.1
- 16 Engel $0.6M 0.6
- 4 Delmanico $0.6M -0.4
- 1 Garcia $3.3M 0.7
- 1 Dyson $2.0M -0.1
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28 minutes ago, Capn12 said:
Better be good on defense like that, Haesley, because the bat doesn't play.
Sheets is not a legitimate outfielder, let alone in MLB.
Colas should be playing everyday with the putrid options Hahn provided Grifol, Sheets can play occasional DH until being sent down when Eloy returns.
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3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
Eddie Gaedel has a nice OBP.
Veeck had the sense to bat him once, not give him $75M.
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9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:
Great, we can wait for Benintendi's deal to die out in 2027... then really fix this thing.
In Right Field, number 1/4, Herve Villechaize.
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Meanwhile, Brian Anderson smacked Barrett and broke John Mabry's ribs.
Wasn't the only time Barrett was made a b**** in a highly publicized incident.
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Why are people continuing to sabotage White Sox win streaks?
@Polar Bear did a most excellent job with the thread yesterday, and should have the honors today.
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6 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
I don't think anyone can expect very many long term contracts that reach into a player's mid to late 30's to produce high value. You always pay for past performance. I know it's bad that the Sox can never sign great players to long term contracts but there will be many more players added to that list if they get injured and PROJECTED value becomes even more worthless. Just look at all the great or once great players ahead of Benintendi on that list. It's the price you pay for excellence.
Dealing with middling FA increases the odds of a bad contract but it also limits your losses.
Regretting the signings of Grandal,Keuchel or Benintendi with projected results is folly. Grandal is 65th on that list and he only has a few more months to go on his contract so most of the results are in. Basically it was a pretty good contract.
Where's Moncada ? He's 66th right behind Grandal .All we hear around here is that his contract sucks. Maybe he was projected to be better because of 2019 and they are slow to bring his projections down. You shouldn't be putting any faith into lists like this or using them as a basis of fact. They might give you some idea of bad contracts like Miggy's being near the end but the fluctuations on the end results are just too unpredictable because of future injuries and using projections.
Plus I have no idea how they are figuring out the 2020 short season. Did players contracts get prorated from the original contract and if so did Trade Values figure that in or just take the total value of the contract when it was signed ? WAR values were understandably lower because of the 60 game schedule in 2020 but what the players were paid, if prorated, then should be reflected with an adjusted total contract and not the original contract.
This post makes no sense. The values are based on the remaining value of the contract as of now. It’s not a reflection of the past.
In terms of Grandal or Keuchel being “pretty good contracts”, the verdict for two are already in, the third is a foregone conclusion, including prorated 2020 contracts. This article actually deals with past FA contracts, and it’s ugly, far worse than the overpay inherent with FA deals in general.
Signings 50
Positive surplus value (SV) players 8
Salary paid to free agents $568,235,053
WAR value of those free agents $213,698,292
SV of free agents -$354,536,761Would wager Benintendi falls in the bottom five when this listed is revisited in 2028. Hopefully Hahn and Benintendi are long gone before the deal is up.
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15 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
I don't see how contract value can be determined until the contract is up and you have the results the player posted during that contract. They say they keep that list updated so Benintendi being 17th in the 1st 2 months of a 5 year contract doesn't seem that bad. It might be accurate currently if it's a list of guys still playing or not officially retired like Strasburg because of injury but seems very unfair to players who just started playing under their current contract.
Benintendi has a substantial track record, and you can find projections a few years out at Baseball Prospectus (paid) or fangraphs (free). ZIPS/Fangraphs estimates 3.0 fWAR average this and next year, and a 1/2 point drop.
I see him more as a 1.5-2.0 fWAR/year player over the life of the deal if he stays healthy. Houston was the only other team with reported interest, at the 4/$54 range, and Hahn paid $21M more, consistent with the Keuchel and Grandal signings.
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11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:
Guess I was beat to the punch. That don't happen often. Usually it's like ,so what this sucky team won, and no one wants to bother making the Winners thread 🤣
Hey, this was a great game and it's always good to celebrate a win, whether the Sox are 90-70 or 70-90.
Love that the bullpen rests as well for when they are needed.
Lucas dealing tomorrow and then Lynn against perhaps a call-up or bullpen game with no named Royals starter.
Perhaps Katz will survive the weekend.
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White Sox Supercut:
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3 minutes ago, wegner said:
Dueling that's a winner threads....great games do that
The stewards have determined South Side Hit Men has won the photo finish.
Thanks for checking in, such a great game. Hate I can search Twitter for highlight videos, but hope to post a few in a hot minute.
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This is the OG and official post game victory thread.
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What an excellent game, 2 hours 8 minutes of pitching dominance.
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Graveman is up in the bullpen.
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Damn it.
Still an excellent outing, has a great shot at 7 - 8 innings. Nice double play to get out of the inning.
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Let's Do This!
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Burger to the outfield???
in Pale Hose Talk
Posted
This is most logical. Eloy needs to play only one OF position to avoid adding injury risk and to minimize the communication bullshit with Robert (Robert is responsible at times by being a Dick / cutting off balls in straight away RF). The problem with Sheets in LF is Sheets/Benintendi are both LHB. Sheets should never start vs. LHP. Ever.
RF LH Power was the logical place for FA dollars, of course Hahn went LF Podsednik power, though without the speed (46 SB every 162 Games) and at this stage 25 points below Podsednik’s career OPS (.719).
Hahn truly out Hahned himself with this move, only the Kimbrel fiasco (trade, QO, Pollock) reached this level since extending than firing Ricky Renteria within 63 games after the Sox to date best season record and playoff performance (1-0 lead, spoiled by worthless Keuchel, than Hahn bullpen plan game with no SP beyond Cease they would not use).