Yossarian

I vote for none of the above. I wish we'd get that option in the voting booth.

The thought of either one of them managing depresses me.

Agreed.

Losing Maggs would absolutely deflate me. Despite not being objective as he is a favorite, I still believe his best years are ahead of him. I know he has been a whipping boy but I think Lee is on the verge of something really big. I agree that the current situation is not conducive to big ticket free agents due to the market and the particular players available at the moment. I also agree that the current crop of managers to be leaves a lot to be desired. We do need another starting pitcher. I've been critical of ownership and managment at times but have no problem with letting Colon go. Not worth it at that price. At my age why should I care? When it comes to the Sox I'm still a kid at heart. Their is no team in all of sports that I would rather see win a world championship. I know the owner is a proud self made man. Tell him if the Sox ever became a real baseball power everthing bad in the past would wash away and he'd feel like a conquering Roman General.

Why not a discussion of the issues brought up without all the name calling? There is just a lot of pent up anger out there today. It's scary. Someone cuts you off on the freeway you've got to think twice about leaning on your horn and giving the one who cut you off the finger. They may be packing and you may be in trouble. I never met corg, but do some looking into it. He is who he says he is. I mean lots of people on lots of boards know the guy, so everybody can't be dreaming. He has strong opinions and if you go after him he returns the favor. Many have had a dialogue, even a disagreeing one without all this bad blood. In any case it was good seeing the infamous giff again. Why don't you all get mad at me instead? Been rooting for the Sox a long time. I think Williams is poison. I think JR's payroll stance is unrealistic. You don't have to be a Steinbrenner, but 55-60 mil ain't gonna cut it. For a century the pendulum has swung back and forth in Chicago regarding the two baseball teams. Young folks here may not believe it, but Chicago has not always been a Cubs town. Now the pendulum has swung like never before and the Cubs are poised to deliver the knockout blow. Does anybody in power know this or care? I don't care how much dough US Cellular is sinking into their newly named stadium or what the lease says. The countrys demographics have changed and their is no sure thing in any American business these days. The Sox need the best they've ever gotten from their ownership and managment and I for one am not optimistic. So have a go at me and love that cute little carciature of Kenny.

Do you still want him if its proven he's a rapist? Celebrity is everything today.

Maybe you should be GM then.

In other words it's OK if we become the Pirates? That was the reasoning they gave for "dumping" all those players, that they couldn't afford them for the long haul. So everytime you have a player who has earned a decent buck you have to unload him. It's a vicious circle. No pennants will be won this way. Ever. Nobody is asking Uncle Jerry to spend Steinbrenner money. An 80-90 million payroll would be nice. He wants fans? Look at how attendance spiked when they went out and got Alomar and Everett. I really want to change my mind before spring training but right now it looks like the Sox are about to enter a long dark tunnel.

This is depressing beyong belief. If Gaston gets named it appears that KW is firmly in control no matter what the insiders say. I don't want Soriano irregardless of his sabremetrics. No plate discipline, with careful pitching this guys stats can take a major nosedive. Gaston for manager. Payroll stuck near the bottom. Might have to trade Maggs and/or Lee. Why not just contract or move the team already? Everybody happy about this? I'm very

It seems like a long time but it was just a year or so ago this site was small but very comfortable. They weren't that many posters but it was kind of an intimate place. Posters who rooted for other teams like the Phillies and Cubs would stop by for a chat when the Sox played them and guess what? No vulgarity and flaming, just some good natured bantering back and forth. Because the internet continues to grow, because of the fights and trolls at MLB.com and the stuffiness and snobiness at WSI this place started to grow by leaps and bounds. Unfortunately in the process Soxtalk has become in its own way just as treacherous as the two other boards mentioned. It's a damn shame because it is my impression that the young people who run this place, and Jason in particular are really great folks whos minds and hearts are in the right place. Regarding the incident that precipitated this mess. It is impossible to know the truth and probably always will be. My gut instincts and life experience tell me that there is more to this than appears on the surface, even if the most serious accusation is not true. I'm sorry, the "modeling" PM to abo was at the very least in poor taste. I am hardly a prude or religious but have always been conscious that the majority of the posters here are in their teens and early twenties and have done my best to be patient and responsible while still getting my political or baseball point across. It is possible you know. Giving cw the benefit of the doubt that he was innocent of the worst charge he is still in my estimation a very bad role model for the young posters here. The folks who run this site did not want to censure posters because they wanted members to feel free here. This is going to be very unpopular but that is the mistake that may eventually cause this site to shut down. I loved being young and I love young people. I love my kids so why would I be against you? That being said you are a very badly educated group that has had toleration, diversity, open mindedness, etc. rammed down your throats at the expense of excellence and standards. Without some rules and standards all of civilization collapses. If some want to villify me for stating that so be it, but the ugliness that transpired is the result of a "no rules" atmosphere here. I'm not going to go into detail but I changed my board handle here because of an embarassing and uncomfortable situation I encountered. Now I'm pretty much gone for good, although I admit I may read from time to time. I really admit I miss the older, smaller Soxnet site. I'm going to try to find a sane White Sox board but I doubt one exists at this time. You know its a damn shame but some Cub fans established a very nice civilized board for their better posters who where tired of the nuttiness at MLB.com. Members have a lot of freedom there but the ugly incident that occurred here would be impossible there. I'm not going to name the site and I hope they keep it up. I feel very angry and frustrated that I've felt compelled to leave three White Sox boards. This has sickened me more than any of the lousy teams and dumb owners I've endured rooting for the Sox longer than most of you here have been alive. Anyway, I hope this place straightens itself out. I'm also vain enough to hope that someone in power reads this and considers what I've posted. Good luck Soxtalk.

I saw the caption "riots in New Hampshire". I thought somebody was trying to be funny. Guess not.

Back in the bad old days of the "Evil Empire" the East Germans had supposedly become experts at making and administering designer drugs to their Olympic athletes. Drugs that could not be detected by traditional tests. I imagine this process has been improved upon since the time Canadian sprinter Ben Johnson was busted. I truly believe that a number of baseball players are juicing up, although I think the numbers are lower than Jose Canseco claims. Maybe not because if anybody should know it would be him. Anyway I think McGwire, Bonds and Sosa are all guilty. Sosa is a poster boy. These guys should know the dangers. Didn't they ever hear of Footballers Steve Courson or Lyle Alzado? Perhaps they are being told that the modern drugs don't have the same side affects. There are a lot of teen age and early 20's posters on this board. I'm sure at least some of them are athletes or at least know athletes in their high schools and colleges. This stuff is not good for you.

"Sudden" Sam McDowell was one of the most intimidating left handers in the 60's. He ranks third in K's per nine innings trailing only Ryan and Koufax IIRC. When he was on he was both awesome and intimidating. He threw as hard as anyone ever did, the radar gun wasn't used that much in the 60's, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Sam hit the occasional triple digits. Unfortunately in the words of McDowell himself "I was the biggest, most hopeless, and most violent drunk in baseball." That as much as anything else shortened his career. I think he made a second career as a motivational speaker counselor after he quit the bottle.

Don't agree about the trick pitches and difficult arm angles. The old timers had many trick pitches including the screwball that pushes the elbow out at a hideous angle. I know in any historical argument you can come across as an old grouch. That being said I remain unimpressed with the stamina of todays pitchers. I think one problem is that young pitchers throw so hard and so many different pitches at an early age. I remember when Little League and even High School coaches would have their pitchers go slow on the curve ball and slider. The idea was to build up stamina, velocity and control. Not so today and a result I think is a lot of young pitchers are blowing out their arms. I know that time marches on and the "good old days" are as much myth as reality. I know that todays top female swimmers have shattered all of Johnny Weismullers old records. I still remain impressed by some of the accomplishments of the athletes of the first three decades of the twentieth century. The toughness is almost unreal. Boxers who fought over 300 professional fights, or lasting 40 rounds in a championship fight with a broken arm. Pitchers who'd win 40 games, most every start a complete game. College and early pro football teams playing 3 or 4 games a week. Tom Brokaw wrote about the WW2 generation calling them "the greatest generation." I think the WW1 generation was the toughest generation.

What about the guys at the turn of the century who often started 50 or more games and pitched 400 or more innings? Even if you concede they didn't throw as hard that is still a lot of strain on an arm. Obviously they were tougher and more durable. As recently as 20 or 25 years ago stud pitchers would work 300+ innings. What has happened? Why are todays pitchers so fragile? Prior and Pedro couldn't close out a tough 8th inning and because of it their teams are on the outside looking in. As far as Koufax goes, his arthtritis may have been genetic, or brought on by the strain of pitching or a little bit of both.

This guy is getting way too much grief. In today's world everybody likes to play the blame game. The most he cost his team is one out. He didn't cause Prior to melt down, Gonzalez to muff the ball, the bullpen to throw batting practice pitches. What if the ball had stayed in the playing field and Alou had simply dropped it? Stuff like that happens some times. You've got to put it aside and pitch out of it. Prior didn't. That's not Steve Bartman's fault. Maybe I'll get slammed but I really feel for the guy. He's looking at ruination over this. Let me add one thing. I didn't feel so bad that I hoped the Cubs would win. There are limits to my being softheaded and softhearted.

If the allegations are true I wonder if he'll ever get an interview with any team.

This is exactly what is believed fervently in much of the Moslem world. It is a big reason why I have so much issue with Bush and Co foreign policy. Not because I hate the West like most of the orthodox Left does these days, but because I fear for the ultimate survivability of Western Civilization. Bush thru his triggermen Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, etc may have started WW3. They are many ways to neutralize and/or defeat an enemy. Sheer firepower alone is not going to win this "War on Terror." Apparently the Bush people don't understand this. Then on the other side you have the Dems who would just roll over in the supine position. No original thinkers in either party at a time it is needed most. No Churchills, Roosevelts or DeGaulles in our midst, just a bunch of dolts. I'm probably going to "waste my vote" on some third party candidate in 2004. Probably the Liberterian candidate.

Don't mind if I toot my horn a little do ya?

That is the conventional wisdom. Court proceedings would be a near certainty if they tried to move. I'm not saying it will happen, but I refuse to believe that it can't happen or is highly unlikely. I could very well see it happening by the end of the decade. Let's see if JR slashes payroll drastically like some say, or just holds steady like others say. Let's see what kind of the team the Sox field in 2004. Are the Cubs going to be one year wonders or are they going to have a long run? What about when the current CBA ends (in 2006?). There could be a lot of moves and/or contractions in the game by then. Look at how the Pirates imploded? All Cub fans in Chicago should bow down and face the east. Without the bumbling Bucs they might not even be in the playoffs let alone be on the verge of their first WS appearance since 1945. Sorry, all is not well in the game of baseball today. Not just on the south side of Chicago. There could be some painful and unexpected happenings in the next few years.

Good question. I just don't think it's impossible that the team would ever move since they came very close in 75 and 88. Been a White Sox fan too long I guess.

And the Milwaukee White Sox, the Seattle White Sox, the Denver White Sox. This franchise always seems to have one foot on a banana peel and one foot you know where.

Yesterday I would have agreed with you but today I feel a little feistier. Don't give up. GO FISH!

And drag it out? Not me. Bronx Bombers in 4. Bite the bullet and pull for the Yanks. You've no idea the grief that will come our way if the Cubs win the WS. Bad enough they make it.

Yeah, I want to know the game plan (if any) to match the Cubs success. Or else save time and just move the team.