Yossarian

I'm not going to look you in your cyber eye and tell you that's not a good point. However why did KW have to open up his big mouth in the first place? Just shut up and let the situation dicate the most reasonable response. Instead, what he has done is humiliate Maggs in public and that seems to be just jake with some folks here. It isn't with me, and irregardless its bad business. Don't you think that potential free agents aren't watching this soap opera? If Maggs leaves, I hope he has many more monster years. Also, even though I conceded your point why should Maggs have to release anything? His career is probably hanging in the balance and my guess is that he's been told to rest and that his prognosis is uncertain. It could be anything from permanent disability to full recovery. I still say that Maggs deserves better than this. He's been a model citizen, not a whiny show boater like the starting RFer on the other side of town. You may not believe it and may not like it but Sox management does not have an overall good reputation, and not just among some fans. KW is known to more than a few as an arrogant control freak. This is just more BS served up by the Sox so called "braintrust". I really hope Magglio has a full and complete recovery. I would much rather go out and have a few beers and some conservation with Magglio than with Mr Ken Williams. I know a little Spanish "habla y leo y escribo el espanol un poco". Perhaps we could navigate.

And not so slickly planting stories in the press about Maggs "condition" furthers those ends. Why is that so hard to see?

Garcia has hardly been ace like and as far as Davis goes, he's come crashing down to earth. Most trades take a couple of years to evaluate but this one shows signs of possibly being the modern day version of Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio.

Thank you.

You are correct, it should have read 160 home runs and 590 RBIs. Also, some of you are very naive where KW is concerned. KW is trying to make sure Ordonez is as devalued as possible, in order to lowball him if he gets the chance or is inclined to sign him. That is JRs way and KW learned well. Conversely Ordonez may be trying to downplay the severity of his injury. Unless he gets an official clean bill of health Ordonez is going to have to settle for an incentive laden and probably short term contract. In any case, Ordonez deserved much better than this cynical manipulation. He has never acted like anything but a mature classy individual on or off the field. That's rare in today's world of sports. I've been rooting for the Sox since shortly after I learned how to read. At his point, I am ever so tired of the Reinsdorf reign. It's really too bad because I don't think that there is a franchise in any of the four major professional sports that could bring as much joy and relief to its fans if it won a championship than the White Sox. Again, many of you are oh so naive where KW is concerned. Shut your mouth Kenny and get to work! Your counterpart on the north side is running laps around you.

I never questioned KWs smarts. When he speaks his Stanford pedigree shows. I question his temperament and some of his actions. While I really disliked him the first couple of years, I admit he has improved. I'm really glad he made the remarks about the ball park. Old fashioned go go Sox small ball, the kind they played back in the Stone Age when I was a kid will never work in reconfigured US Cellular Field. As they say on Family Feud "good answer Kenny". Of course we badly need to upgrade the pitching and a little more speed and situational hitting wouldn't hurt either.

I did not want the Sox to trade Reed. The Sox farm system has been terrible the last few years, but this is one player that is going to have a productive ML career if he stays healthy. Just my opinion.

Carlos really wants to beat these guys? The results are unbelievable. They show the Sox to be totally and completely intimidated by these guys. There is no "rivalry" here, just one team thoroughly annihilating the other on a regular basis. As far as Ozzie's remarks go, he has become ever so tiresome. How long is his contract?

Nobody deserves it. I vote for the long suffering Sox fan. Pass me my trophy please. Seriously the fans responded this year and attendance would have really shown it if the team hadn't tanked the last week of July. I wonder how many will show up next year?

Last nite I gave you a hard time about Garcia's pitch count. Tonite I completely agree with you. No reason to extend Buerhle in this game. He gutted it out, the game was not winnable. He shouldn't have been out there. The thing is the total situation and the individual pitcher and game should be taken into consideration. Not just the pitch count. But again, tonite I'm with you. Bad move by Ozzie.

Been watching or listening to the game tonite? Still think I'm crazy? 22-33 since July 24. Take that over the course of a 162 game season and its damn close to 100 losses. Starting lineup - 5 players short Starting Rotation - no one close to an ace. After Mark and Freddy close your eyes. Bench - I like Uribe, Gload has hit OK but can only play 1st. Bullpen - I laugh to keep from crying. Cotts, Politte, and Adkins are good batting practice pitchers. Marte has declined and Shingo is being solved by AL hitters. Next year could be brutal. Get to work KW.

This is embarassing. Does anybody still think the Sox are remotely close to playoff worthy? They're going to need a lot more than a tweak or two to play .500 ball next year let alone contend for a division. I know they've been out of the running for quite a while but the way they lie down like a beaten dog for these Twins is downright depressing. I think Ozzie has totally lost the team in a way that Manuel as lousy as he was, never even approached.

Help me I'm insane!! If you think this team is going anywhere next year without some major changes then you're ....... well I'm too nice to insult you like that.

Lots of Republicans are unhappy with Bush on a variety of issues that excude Iraq. Almost all are probably going to hold their noses and vote for him anyway. If he wins, which I now suspect he will he faces king sized headaches on a number of fronts. Conservatives of all stripes are unhappy over the No Child Left Behind Act. Liberterians are unhappy over the proposed amendment concerning marriage. Nationalists and a variety of other conservatives are unhappy with our border situation and Bush's proposed amnesty. One thing that puzzles me is how little modern day liberals understand that which is labeled "conservative" today. There are many schisms and contradictions in that so called philosophy. The liberal movement of today is far more monolithic. Yes, you are correct there are a lot of unhappy campers in the Republican camp. Still, religious and liberterian conservatives for the most part loathe Kerry. Bush may win, but the next four years could be tough for all of us. Then enter Hillary??

I have a lot of questions about some of Ozzies game day strategies and off the cuff remarks. However we're getting all too anal about this pitch count thing. Ace pitchers used to regularly throw ..... drumroll now........ COMPLETE GAMES! Imagine that. I know 1971 is ancient history to most here but southpaw Mickey Lolich actually pitched over 370 innings all by himself that year. He made 45 starts and completed 29 of them. You know what? His arm didn't fall off. 71 was the first of 4 straight years that he threw 300 or more innings! Even into the 80's stud starting pitchers could and would go over 300 innings. What has made the modern day hurler so fragile? I sure as hell don't know. Lots of pitchers threw both hard and a variety of pitches in the long ago. Lolich had a varied repotoire, he was not a soft tosser. It would be a big help to the game if teams started developing more sturdy starting pitchers, not the brittle china dolls we have now. If a team only carried 10 pitchers then you have more bench strength and maneuverability to win the close games in the late innings. As far as Garcia goes, I know he had recent arm problems but I think he is stronger and has more stamina than most of his contemporaries. I don't think Ozzie ruined him today. If he feels well I'd send him out again with his four days rest and not let him go much past 100 in his next start. Only because today's pitchers are conditioned physically and psychologically to go no more than 110 pitches or so. That needs to change.

Billy Pierce was my idol as a kid, along with Minnie Minoso and Nellie Fox. Nobody ever got less recognition for his accomplishments in the long time I've followed baseball. Nobody was continually matched up against the opponents ace and got less run support doing so. Still he managed to win 211 games and pitch 193 complete games and 38 shutouts. He went 7-2 against Bob Lemon and 8-6 against the great Whitey Ford, 9-6 if you include his WS victory against him in 62. In an age of specialization people forget how versatile Billy was. He posted 32 saves and also played 1st base twice while a new pitcher was brought in to face one batter. They don't do that sort of "outside the box" strategy in today's game. Pierce got pitifully little support in HOF voting while others with similar stats are enshrined. One more thing. Billy Pierce was exciting as hell to watch. It was a real treat coming to the park and watching him pitch. Billy Pierce is one of the most underappreciated players in the history of the game. You'll never meet a classier old school gentleman either.

When Joe Crede hit that 9th inning home run on July 24 off of Ugeth Urbina it was the Sox 4th win in a row and 10th out of 14. The players stormed out of the dugout to pummel him and things were looking up. 10 games above .500 and on a roll. What did they do with this momentum? Lose seven in a row and 20 out of the next 28. They are 20-32 since Crede's heroics that now seem long ago. Total and complete collapse and the team quit on Ozzie far earlier than they ever did on Manuel. You're looking at a real shot at a 100 loss season in 05 unless some real changes are made. Is that possible? The farm system doesn't seem capable of producing top flight AA and AAA players let alone those of major league caliber. It's a real tough situation for KW to be in and I hope he at least gets it. This franchise is between a rock and a hard place at the moment.

With Maggs and Frank the Sox still weren't a playoff team. Without them they were just plain awful. Lastly, the team did quit on Ozzie and one month sooner than they quit on Jerry. Sox fans have been living off of the hype of the 2000 season for too long. That team was a first half wonder. Since then failure after failure. I know Sox fans don't want to hear it but we have to rebuild again. I don't envy KW, we're not just a couple of players away, even if Frank and Maggs return and have big years. This team is a whole bunch of players away, and in need of an attitude and personality transplant.

Why is 3E8 getting raked over the coals? In baseball as in any business a good positive, dynamic boss can make all the difference in the world. Both are replete with examples of leaders who turned a losing culture into a positive winning one. The Sox with their bargain basement tactics can only hope to catch lightning in a bottle for a season. Building a winner for the long haul is totally out of the question as things now stand. Terry Bevington, Jerry Manuel and now Ozzie Guillen aren't the answer to our long standing problems.

I'm older than most here and I'm a history oriented person on top of that. Anyone who thinks that two separate Daley dynasties have been good for Chicago is sadly mistaken. Doubly so if you think that Chicago is even close to the great city it once was. Nothing is going to change. Even if the Republicans hold onto Congress and the White House Chicago is a one party town. A one party system wasn't good in the old Soviet Union and it hasn't been good for Chicago. Even in the one ruling party Mayors Kelly and Kennelly were far superior to the Daleys. For all his faults and foibles so was the late Harold Washington. And yes, SS2K4 the mayor will stand up before the press and whine. New York city can elect a Giuliani or even a Democrat like Ed Koch but in Chicago it's always the same old same old.

There's more than just a chance. Really how much longer do we have to tolerate this perpetual mediocrity (or worse) that typifies the Sox? 2017 will be around before you know it. Will we get to celebrate 100 years of futility? I've been a Sox fan a long time but the last two years have really tried my patience. I've never seen such total ineptitude and total lack of heart. If you're not good enough to win a championship then you have lots of company. If you play stupid baseball in the field and on the basepaths, if you try to crush the baseball no matter what the situation that's another thing. Manuel was part of this overall aura of futility. So far the same is true of Ozzie. You know really good managers and coaches in all sports are strong enough to overcome a losing attitude. Vince Lombardi did it. So did Danny Murtaugh and Red Auerbach. All in different sports. Jim Hendry and the Cubs are at least trying. If they ever succeed we all might as well pack it in.

People critique their friends, neighbors, bosses, politicians, that new restaurant in town and MLB managers among other things. It's just part of life. Some folks have very informed opinions and others don't. As far as Ozzie goes he's opened himself up to a ton of criticism IMHO. Supposedly he wants to play an entirely different brand of baseball and he has the ear of GM Kenny Williams. If he gets his wish then we'll see for sure if he can manage. I do know this. He has shown an extreme case of foot in mouth itis, his on field moves often leave you scratching your head, and just like Manuel last year this team QUIT on him. This year has not been a raging success for Ozzie to say the least. It's still too early to say that he is a total bust as a manager but if 2004 is any indication then he certainly will be. As for me, I think that the Reinsdorf era has given us only two above average managers and none since Jeff Torborg. JR wants to win. I believe he does or at least thinks he does. Nevertheless, come hell or high water he's going to do it his way! His way does not include going top drawer for managers or GMs. Loyalty, predictability, control and keeping costs low are more important. Kind of hard to win that way don't you think? In any case, Ozzie has just about convinced me that he fits in with Lamont, Bevington, Manuel, etc. About some of these lineups offered here. When will people finally see enough of Joe Borchard to know that he is not a ball player?

Yes he was wrong on a few things but right on many others. The truth is the Sox have known among their competitors as a team that will "fall apart" at crunch time. At this point it's time for managment to take a good hard luck and do what is necessary to keep this team competitive. The Sox can't afford to be weak sisters for a bunch of seasons in a row. Not with cubbie love reaching a fever pitch.

Why did they make him a bench coach in the first place? He's practically a mute.

Yes, those are his tendencies but the majority here seem to think that he is a capable GM.