Yossarian

QUOTE(ChiSoxFan @ Jan 20, 2005 -> 09:19 PM) I read an article where the guy who wrote "The Prince of Tides", Pat Conroy is also a Sox fan. Conroy, is a southerner. His dad was a south side Irishman and definitely a big Sox fan.

Why are today's pitchers like fine china? Why were some starting pitchers of a generation or so ago often able to pitch 300 or so innings year after year? In any case, pitching is always a risky business. Buehrle has a nice easy motion, and in general does not try to overpower the hitters. To me, guys like Kerry Wood and Bartolo Colon look like rotator cuffs waiting to happen. I'm much more worried about Contreras and El Duque. I'm more concerned about Garland finally getting his head screwed on straight.

QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Jan 20, 2005 -> 12:46 PM) I didn't follow the Sox until the 80's. I know my dad is a huge Nellie Fox fan, and my brother loved Chet Lemon for some reason. But here goes my list: 80's: Harold, Fisk, Kittle, Walker, Jack McDowell, Ozzie 90's: Ventura (for many reasons), Thomas, Ordonez, Raines, Lance Johnson, Maggs, Ozzie, Albert Belle 00's: Thomas, Maggs, Rowand, Buehrle, Konerko, Lee, Freddy Garcia Good Topic. Shame on me for forgetting and thanks to you for reminding me. About Chet Lemon of course a big big favorite in the late 70's, and early 80's. I'm glad he got that WS ring in Detroit.

1901-1910 Ed Walsh 1911-1920 Buck Weaver 1921-1930 Willie Kamm 1931-1940 Zeke (Banana Nose) Bonura 1941-1950 Luke Appling 1951-1960 Billy Pierce 1961-1970 Floyd Robinson 1971-1980 Dick Allen 1981-1990 Lamar Hoyt, Carlton Fisk tie 1991-2000 Robin Ventura 2001- Was Magglio, but he made an ass of me defending him so I change it retroactively to Keith Foulke. Others I really liked include Ed Cicotte and Shoeless Joe of Black Sox fame. Team mate Ray Schalk who was clean. Also Johnny Mostil, Ted Lyons, Bibb Falk, Lew Fonseca, Thornton Lee and Bullfrog Bill Dietrich from the lean years (20's 30's and 40's). From the Go Go era who can forget Jungle Jim Rivera and Minnie Minoso two real fan favorites. Nellie Fox, Looie Aparacio, Gary Peters, Joel Horlen, and Ted Kluszewski. Especially Fox and Kluszewski for not choking in a losing cause. From the 70's Wilbur Wood deserves a mention. So does Ken Kravec. What a bust he was but I sure liked him anyway. More recently Big Frank, Roberto Hernandez, Wilson Alvarez and Alex Fernandez are favorites. And last but not least Carlos Lee for being such a good cub killer.

QUOTE(retro1983hat @ Jan 20, 2005 -> 11:48 AM) I am a huge Sox fan and I wouldn't brag about having Hannah Storm on my side. Watching these local TV stations cover Cub events is sickening. I would rather watch that old Geezer Sam Sianis f*** his goat than hear him talk about the curse or his horrible cheeseburgers on more time. Not bragging, just noting. I could give a flying fig about most sports journalists.

QUOTE(retro1983hat @ Jan 20, 2005 -> 11:24 AM) Yes, I have heard this as well. I tried to stay away from national celebrities, because they are almost all Cub fans. (John Cusak, Jimmy Buffet, Joe Mantegna, etc.) Most national celebrities of any kind are hopeless trendies, and yes it seems true that most of our locals who went national root for the wriglies. I do seem to recall that Hannah Storm, who is from Oak Park I believe once pledged allegiance to the Sox.

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jan 19, 2005 -> 12:29 PM) Did anyone click on the other link about traffic? Chicago is 2nd worst, no surprise there. Atlanta a D+? Of all the places I've been Atlanta and Los Angeles have the worse traffic. Chicago has gotten really bad the last twenty years or so, but the above mentioned are worse I think.

QUOTE(Wanne @ Jan 14, 2005 -> 02:45 AM) I mean ever since they moved the plate up and decreased the dimensions, The Cell has become kind of a band box. With losing some big bats (Mags, Lee, Valentin)...and trying to get a "Ozzie-type" team...and the focus being on pitching...do you think it would be smart to include increasing the dimensions back to what the were? I don't know what is possible, if the Sox have hemmed themselves in with the new configurations. I do know that they've decided to give Ozzieball a try and they're playing in a park that is now the closest thing to Coors Field. I mean they redesigned the Cell to make it fan friendly and to cater to all those home run hitters. Now this. Does the right hand know what the left hand is doing??

Maybe some year the White Sox will be in a World Series, but honestly analyze this team player by player. Compare to last years playoff teams. It's always possible for most of your key players to have career years, but that and some additional luck is what it's going to take for this team to make it to the Fall Classic.

QUOTE(Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jan 14, 2005 -> 12:58 PM) Especially for me - an old time fan! But I still want to kill Tony Cuccinello (3rd base coach for all you kids out there) for sending Sherm, yes that is a piano on my back, Lollar home, and the Dybber for his baserunning disaster. Oh well, maybe 2005 will make up for our past shortcomings. You hate to say any one play turned a Series around, but Lollar getting thrown out by a mile in game 2 really hurt the Sox. To this day I still wonder just what the hell was Cuccinello thinking? He was an OK third base coach for the most part. That play and Lopez not starting Billy Pierce for even one game will forever remain mysteries to me.

Easy explanations don't fly. Many teams offer deferred money, not just the White Sox. I'm not anything close to a financial whiz but Big League contracts can be highly complicated and nuanced. Problems with deferred money appear to have hurt the White Sox in the past. There is no question that JR does not have the best reputation with regards to contracts and this predates his ownership of the White Sox. To say that the Beltran contract definitely proves the benevolence of JR is pure nonesense. 24 years of the 87 years of futility belongs to his regime. That being said he can quiet the naysayers once and for all if the Sox actually win the WS. Then he will be like a conquering Roman general. For a guy that professes to value a WS ring more than his six Bulls rings that fact seems to be totally lost on him.

QUOTE(winodj @ Jan 12, 2005 -> 04:06 PM) That's funny about Krugman. Did you know before Bush was in office, he was not considered a liberal columnist? He tends to go after those in power. More contrarian than partisan, in my opinion. Krugman not considered a liberal????? I must have missed something. He is dreadfully and tiresomely partisan.

Slap me around if you wish, let's just play the games and see. If I'm wrong great pass the crow, hot sauce and a couple of cold ones to wash it down. I'd rather see the Sox win than be right about this trade. As of now Posednik completly underwhelms me. He's got to have a few 2003 type years or better in a row to change my mind. Vizcaino should bolster the bullpen, I think he could be the sleeper in this whole thing. I always liked El Duque, would make it a point to turn on the boob tube to watch him pitch. Still, he's at least 39 years old and hasn't pitched much the last couple of years. If he's healthy great, but this is definitely a gamble. I will say this. Give me a near 100% El Duque over Contreras any day. Contreras scares me. A pitcher who doesn't seem to know how to pitch. El Duque looks to me like he has more command and confidence than Contreras, no matter how good Contreras' stuff allegedly is. Again, I think too many Sox fans undervalue Carlos Lee. It would not surprise me if he has a monster year. I'm also tired of folks knocking his defense. Some players work hard to overcome defensive defiencies. Mike Schmitt comes to mind. Lee worked hard to become an above average defensive player. Hell, he didn't make an error last year. God help him the next time he makes one.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 01:01 AM) Why does that still not excite me? Me either. Vizcaino is going to have to salvage this trade, if it can be salvaged. I don't understand the excitement over this trade one bit. I know some are happy about the chance to play "Ozzieball" but the Cell is a launching pad since all the changes. This trade could turn out just awful and I'll be glad to eat crow, but as of now it looks like a terribly one sided trade to me.

It's a Robert Frost poem.

Thanks for posting this about the trade. I was livid about it, but this is giving me second thoughts. I don't live in Chicago and have only a few casual baseball contacts, with no insiders in Chicago. So while I still don't think the Sox got enough for Lee, maybe it had to go down this way. I'd still like to see a full court press by JR and Co to retake Chicago from the "lovable losers" on the north side. In the near term we could use a really decent SP and for the long haul the Sox can do a better job scouting, drafting and developing young talent. The Twins always seem to have a bottomless cup when it comes to good young players.

I don't know what everyone is so happy about. Replacing Lee and Ordonez in the lineup with Dye and Posednik is a definite downgrade. Please no lectures about Pos speed blah blah blah. We still only have two starting pitchers I have any faith in. Contreras and Garland are iffy at best. The number 5 SP is still a big black hole. Garland should be the 5 in my estimation. Contreras is so inconsistent and unpredictable, he's no better than a 4, maybe worse. The only bright spot is that the bullpen appears to be moderately strengthened. Right now this team looks 5 to 10 games below the 04 Sox. I'm not overjoyed at the direction of this team.

Enough of Borchard already! No potential, no ability, no major league baseball player. One 504 foot home run though.

I agree with Silvy. This team is disintegrating. Black Hawks here we come.

The Sox probably will be awful next year. This is a terrible trade and KW won't get fired, or at least I doubt it. He is JRs guy. By the way, I'm curious. Why the hell was KW running down the hall to ask permission to make this trade? Or did I hear wrong?

I guess it's lost on most that the "Black Hawkization" of the White Sox is in full swing. This trade blows in a most major way.

OK my last post was done in haste as pointed out by poorme. I wanted to get that out of the way before I start b****ing and moaning about KW getting fleeced once again.

You know come to think of it you're right. You get it if you're lucky. Doing it on the cheap in baseball as in life you have to be really lucky.

Sure it can happen and will probably happen again. You catch lightning in a bottle like last years Marlins. You're not going to compete for the playoffs year in and year out with that philosophy.

In baseball as in life you get what you pay for.