FoxForce2

I think that's very nearly a foregone conclusion in any Kimbrel trade.

If I'm a free agent pitcher, I'm looking for at least MLB average fielding around me. Right now - the Sox ain't it. Short of a really good $$$ offer, guys like Kershaw and Grienke would likely demur on a Sox offer.

The Cesar trade/deal is still a head scratcher. On paper, it was a solid trade, even considering that his HR rates would likely decrease. GG fielder, a decent bat, solid experience, 2 years of contract --- what could go wrong? Everything I guess. That trade has backed the Sox into a corner for this season and requires addressing along with the other needs. I don't necessarily blame Hahn on this one, but something went pretty wrong in the vetting process.

Many posters have mentioned Marte as a possible 2B when he has played more in the OF than at 2B over the past 3 years. I don't know the reasons for that, but he may very well be a better option in RF than at 2B. This is probably academic in that if Ariz were to shop him - the Sox have little to offer in a bidding war. FA -Conforto - #5 SP Kimbrel to Phils for Segura + catcher prospect. I still think the Sox should bring Tepera back.

Assuming there is MLB this year, how many here are going to be affected by the current state of inflation WRT attending games?

The in-game money can be truncated over the rest of the season. I like April ball, but it really isn't a priority to either the owners or players. Especially if it involves snow on the ground in Minnesota, Chicago, Detroit, Kansas City etc. Even TV numbers rate lower in April than May.

Like I said ---'some fans'. Does TV? The owners? The players? Where is the money in April ball?

Does anyone (with the exception of some fans), even care about April ball?

A poster on The Athletic (not an article writer), said that in his experience as a contract lawyer, parties that propose bringing in arbitors are most often having difficulties bringing their own members/constituents into accord. An interesting POV if nothing else. Arbitor's roles are largely concerned with procedural processes anyway and have little to do with resolving specific issues. I don't know that the owners aren't just tossing out a MacGuffin with the arbitration offer. <--- Imagining a Fans Association and the role it could play in a true 3-way forum. The owners and players say this and that about 'the fans' best interests and welfare which comes across to me as little more than crocodile tears.

No I'm not especially interested in prospect 'hugging. I'm in favor of developing prospects. If Vaughn is vulnerable to RHP, then find out in AAA and work the kinks out. Does Crochet have SP potential? A stint in the minors would have at least provided a direction to move him in. Playoff organizations, from The A's to the Dahjahs, maintain high end farm systems that continually move prospects up to the Majors - *when* they belong. That is the measure of an effective organization with practical, effective vision and goals. While any number of guys come into the system as 18 year year olds and get 2-4 years playing professional ball before going into the cauldron of MLB, the college guys who come into a system are often getting only 1-2 years of farm work, and in Vaughn's case, not even that. Is college ball really as solid a prep ground as some seem to think? The Sox caught lightning in a bottle with Sale and seemingly have been running around in an open field under a storm cloud with an empty beer bottle in each hand ever since. e.g. I can't help but wonder if the 'major league ready' Rodon wouldn't have avoided at least some of his ailments had he been brought up the ladder at a more reasonable rate. A different case would be Eloy, who was obviously through the roof at the plate but whatever 'development' occurred with him as an outfielder just as obviously didn't take and probably wouldn't have even with more time at Charlotte. But again, that is a unique case p.s TA did 3 years in MiLB from the age of 20-23 before joining the Sox, it worked pretty well for him

I didn't say anything about being shocked. I just find this kind of metric to be disappointing and a sample of the drawbacks and weaknesses of the Sox organization in the big picture. The Big Picture meaning an outfit that is consistently in the hunt for playoff (and further) berths. In some highly competitive outfits Vaughn, Crochet and Sheets would still be prospects. That is to say minor leaguers that have a bright future - not guys that the team is dependent on to fill positions in the present.

Just looked at Keith Law's top MiLB 100 prospects for this year on The Athletic. Not a single Sox. Rankings like this may be arbitrary, but still, a sad.state of affairs.

The Natural if only for Randy Newmans' score. Imagine what a downer that film would be with the novel's ending.

Just for grins: 2 - Yaz is average as a catcher (framing taken into account), and well above average at the plate. But how often can he be counted on to catch? 3 - Abreu is likely, in at least some degree, in decline. High GDP and lowering BA indicate as much. The numbers don't show a lot in his field play, but the eyeball test says he improved as a fielder last year. Leadership and attitude keep his rank high - but superstar? Not unless he re-surges at the plate. 4 - We don't have a 4. 6. - TA brings a lot to the table. Great leadership and attitude with first class athletic ability but he's an average MLB SS and just doesn't like walks which drags his OBP down. A very high above-average player but not quite a superstar at this point. 5 - Moncada is an above average fielder that makes some super plays with good OBP at the plate, but hasn't produced as much SLG power as most of us would like to see. Above average. 7 - Eloy is still a question mark. For all the superstar plate potential he has, we don't really know what he is at this point. 8 - I honestly think Robert can put up near Trout numbers at the plate and exceed Trout in the field -------- if he doesn't get hurt. An 'if' that inconveniently gets in the way of superstar status. 9 - We don't have a 9. Depth - is at least interesting. Engel and Leury are IMO first class depth guys. i.e. Assuming Engel can play most of a season. Vaughn and Sheets are still question marks - and for all practical purposes still prospects. I won't go into the 1's in much detail, but will say that we're not as strong in starters as we were last year. Replacing Rodon's first half performance will be challenging. Lynn needs to get in shape. Can Keuch rebound? Can Kopech 'stretch' into a starter role? Lot of uncertainty there. I still think the Sox need another reliever. Tepera is still on the market. Too many holes and question marks for me to call this team loaded. Good thing we're in the AL Central.

With Eloy and Robert out, how many outfielders did the Sox have on hand? Then considering Engels on and off availability, what were the Sox supposed to do regarding outfielders at all? The outfield for much of the season was a game of musical chairs. Vaughn and Sheets were the only in-system options.

It was possible but not set in granite. Due to lack of depth, the Eloy injury and later Roberts' pretty much made it necessary.

Had Robert and Eloy not been long term absent last year, neither Vaughn nor Sheets would have gotten much more than a large cup of coffee or two in the bigs. Or at least one would have hoped not. Never know about this organization.

I realize you've brought up a hypothetical point. But I don't know that this organization hasn't bounced ideas like this around even if only in a strawman context. Does Vaughn really need to be pinballing around at multiple positions all the while getting seasoned as a major league player/hitter with pretty much ZERO experience at the minor league level? The point being - do the Sox really want to groom Vaughn to be a utility player? The guy needs to concentrate on his strengths (hitting at a MLB level), and possibly add some versatility over the course of a few seasons. Even if he's capable and willing to give these variations a shot, he's simply not the kind of player one would want to overly experiment with. Swap him out with Eloy in left/DH and get him some first base time in spelling Pito. The end.

That would be the point. Vaughn and Crochet won't bring that level of talent. Therefore - you keep and develop them. Their ceilings are high enough that you don't need to go chasing guys that don't come in at Franco's level. Maybe my sardonicism was a tad obscure.

I'd say that Vaughn and/or Crochet are off the table under almost any circumstances. They are high ceiling prospects that carry limited data sets. For the present, there is little reason to think that they are moveable for anything short of a Wander Franco level prospect. For anything less that that kind of return, as a fan, I'd hate it and think moving them would be little short of selling the future for the present.

I don't know how you define 'prospect pedigree' but Burger was one of the top rated hitting prospects in his draft class, and not much has changed with that over the past couple of years. The problem with trading Burger is uncertainty about the Achilles status. Burger would likely bring equivalent value at the AAA level. Yes, Vaughn is the most coveted prospect the Sox have in the system. Not much doubt about that. So how is Abreu 'going to be gone in a year'? Considering the Sox commitment to the Cuban Connection, Abreu is an invaluable piece of the roster puzzle even if only considering his leadership traits. Barring a catastrophic decline in performance, Jose is here for the duration. And yes, that would be based on a Konerko model.

Putting some time in at second will likely broaden his experience and possibly improve his play at his natural position at third. I really think that it would be best for all concerned to move him to a team where he has a legit shot at making a ML club at third. With the logjam at DH and Moncada locking down the corner he could easily get lost in the shuffle. Win -win in moving him to another team.

I more or less remember seeing Roger Maris hit a dinger at Comiskey in '61. I'm thinking it was off Ray Herbert, but as an 8 year old at the time, the memory-image is a little fuzzy. I do recall not realizing the significance of it until several years later. As for this site - I've lurked here for years but only joined earlier this season I didn't feel the need to join the fray and simply used the site to see what's up with the Sox. I still have family in the area but haven't lived in Chicago in a long time.

All well and good. Hope he doesn't get injured in working the moves that a second basemen needs. The Sox need a professional second baseman. Period.

Signing Leury was independent of the search for a regular 2B. But if Hahn can't close a deal, it might just work out that way. Alas - the Aparicio-Fox days are such an ancient and much storied memory. Maybe an AI genius could find a way to animate the statue.