ChiSoxTrojan

It sure seems like Grifol and Eloy are both serious about having him get some time in RF. I know that sounds insane to most of us, but just for fun, I'm gonna play devil's advocate and consider what that would look like. First off, in terms of the quality of his defense, I think Eloy would unquestionably be better than either Sheets or Vaughn. So if that's the standard, I suppose we can all say "we've seen worse." There are two big negatives for Eloy as a RF though. One is his arm, which is not good, but I'd still say the overall defensive package is better than Sheets/Vaughn. The other is the potential that he gets hurt playing an unfamiliar position. That's for sure a risk. But my hot take is that his risk of injury isn't that much higher if he's playing RF part-time than it would be as a full-time DH. I think he's just as likely to pull something while running the bases as he is of injuring something in RF, and if his time in RF is limited to 20 or so games, it doesn't increase the overall likelihood of missing time due to injury by that much. If he was out there for 100 games that would be a different story, but I don't think anyone expects that. Really, he's only had one MAJOR injury from playing OF (the torn pec), and that happened as a result of such a bone-headed play that I'd like to think it is not likely to be repeatable. Any other fielding-induced injuries have been pretty standard. So let's consider how this would look. Assuming Colas wins the RF job out of Spring Training, Eloy could get some starts against LHP in RF. That means most likely Grandal would DH. If Grandal is healthy and going well that's a good way to get his bat into the lineup while giving him a day off from behind the plate. If Grandal is looking like he did in 2022, then that's a complete waste of the DH slot, and the Sox would be better off with Eloy as DH and Leury or Marisnick in RF. So part of the "Eloy in RF" idea is contingent on Grandal looking like his old self, because otherwise there isn't a player on the roster for that DH spot against LHP that wouldn't be an upgrade in RF over Eloy.

Crochet hasn't started a game since 2019. Crochet is coming off TJS. Those two facts make his situation very different from Strider. If the Sox wanted to develop him as a starter, it would probably take 2 full years in the minors.

Gonna disagree on Crochet, I'm not sure why you would think he's untouchable. He's proven nothing to this point and the ship has sailed on him ever starting. But if you think that Crochet is untouchable, that just emphasizes how the Sox do not have the trade chips to get a deal done. Chisholm is under control through 2026. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/miami-marlins/jazz-chisholm-29144/ I'm not saying that Romy or Sosa are definitely the answer, and I'd be in favor of relieving the pressure on them with a veteran LH 2B. One who can easily be pushed aside if one of the two rookies is able to step up. Trading for Wendle is my favorite idea, but I'd be okay with signing Odor if it's cheap.

Obviously Chisholm would be a great fit and an immediate improvement for the Sox lineup. There are only so many left-handed 2B with the power to hit 25+ HRs and play excellent defense. But there are several things working against a trade and reasons why it will never happen. Prospect cost. The Sox would have to empty out the farm for Chisholm. The suggestions before included Montgomery, Crochet, and Ramos (possibly more). Health. He had a bad back and other injuries that derailed his season last year. He had some nagging injuries the year before as well. The last thing the Sox need is another injury-prone starter. Internal options. The Sox have a bunch of young players in their system who could become everyday 2B within the next couple years: Sosa, Romy, Popeye, Montgomery, Ramos, I'll even throw Sanchez in there. Chisholm is under control through 2026, so acquiring him effectively blocks these guys. (Yes, I'm aware they could be traded or they could play other positions). Payroll cost (long-term). Chisholm is cheap now, but if he continues on the trajectory he's been on (and is able to stay healthy) he's going to get really expensive in a couple years through arbitration. I just don't think 2B is a position the Sox want to invest a lot of their payroll in, especially when they've got a number of cheap internal options that would be on rookie deals. I think most people here know these things, but then I keep seeing the Chisholm trade suggestions so I thought I'd lay it all out .

Isn't this the same guy who said like 24 hours ago that the Sox were done making moves?

By default, right? I mean he's obviously behind Chaz Palminteri and Chaz Michael Michaels, but ahead of Chaz Bono. I can't even think of any more Chazzes to round out the top 5.

For the price, Wendle would make a better trade target than Chisholm IMO. Left-handed bat, excellent defense, doesn't block any of the 2B prospects long-term, and shouldn't require emptying the farm. He's coming off a down year offensively but would be good in more of a platoon role with Sosa (or Romy).

It's true that there aren't many impact LH bats at 2B across the league (Jazz being one of the few exceptions), but when the incumbents are all mediocre options or questions marks (rookies) that's exactly when it makes sense to put together a platoon to maximize production. It would also take some pressure off of Romy/Sosa as they get acclimated to MLB. I think it's highly unlikely that the Sox will be able to put together a .650 OPS against RHP out of Romy/Leury/Sosa, but if you can bring in a lefty who can do better than that, it's an easy (cheap) way to boost production and prevent 2B from being a black hole in 2/3 of the games.

He had an awful 2022 but was a plus defender at 2B every year beforehand. His career OPS against RHP is .725. Really, .645 against RHP is probably better than we should expect out of Romy/Sosa/Leury, so if he rebounds even a little towards his career marks he would be a nice addition. He's only 29. If Sosa runs away with 2B, all the better, but this gives the team a bit of a cushion in the likely event that that doesn't happen right away.

I don't see why you can't have a bench of (1) backup C, (2) backup IF, (3) 4th OF, and (4) Leury. That would mean that Sheets is the odd man out but I don't see how he's going to get his at bats anyway (barring injury), other than giving Vaughn rest. Eloy should start every day at DH, and Colas should get all the RF starts against RHP. If they bring in a legit 4th OF like Duvall or McCutchen then I'd be fine with Sosa/Odor at 2B.

If we got the Odor from a couple years ago that would be a nice fit. He had a really bad 2022 though, both offensively and defensively (at least per OAA). He's still under 30 and is probably a good bet to bounce back.

That's fair. But with Torres around it would be hard to get a look at any of the rookies to be able to make that determination. Really I'd be fine with the move, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate because I'd love for one of the in-house options to step up rather than having to pay $10M-$20M per year for 2B.

I'm with you. Yes it makes the team better in 2023, but I could easily see Sosa or Popeye being able to put up Gleyber-like numbers by 2024, and they would be on rookie deals. I'd prefer a left-handed option that the Sox could easily move on from if it looks like one of the in-house guys is a long-term solution.

Merrifield would also be a great fit on the Sox, as he could platoon with Colas in RF in addition to his starts at 2B. I just don't think the Sox have anything to offer the Jays that would make them give up their starting 2B. They're not in a position to be trading quality major leaguers for prospects, and the Sox don't have any expendable major leaguers.

Hamilton spent most of last year in the minors, batting .188/.264/.229. I don't think he's really in the position to dictate terms. If he opts out on May 1, it's not like other teams are going to be lining up to put him on their major league roster, so he might as well stick with the organization that has chronic OF depth issues.

Yeah, Payton, Adolfo, and Rutherford are all gone. Haseley is still hanging around I think.

I prefer Biggio, for a few reasons: He's left-handed and should hit right-handed pitching better than Espinal, and better than Romy/Sosa/Leury are likely to produce next year. Even if it's not a straight platoon it gives Biggio more of a defined role and would reduce the burden on the rookies. He has experience in RF and at 1B (I imagine he'd take Sheets spot on the roster, so he could be the backup 1B). Biggio probably comes cheaper coming off a down year.

I imagine it's more that, since Benitendi will be the "everyday" LF, Grifol just wants to leave him alone there, rather than having two guys playing out of position (Eloy in LF and Benitendi in RF).

My one takeaway from the comment was that, at least on Jan 4, Grifol thinks that Eloy is a better option to shift over to RF (in an emergency) than Benitendi. I don't think he has any intention of playing Benitendi (a guy he has coached before) for the first time in his career in RF. Of course this could all change once he gets a closer look at Eloy's limitations.

If we got the version of La Stella from 2021 it would be a huge boost. He struggled but had a .734 OPS against RHP, which is a lot better than I expect out of Romy/Sosa/Leury. But yeah, obviously health is key and he was not healthy last year. Only negative about signing him to a minor league deal is that if the Sox did that, it would mean they are done adding at the position. I'm still holding out hope for a trade for a La Stella-like player that doesn't have the injury concerns.

I don't disagree with you, I have no problem with Eloy being in the OF 20-30 games this season and I expect it will be the case. I just don't think it should be in RF. Benitendi can take a game or so off per week against LHP. But putting Eloy in RF would be a mistake.

I don't think anyone has any problem with Eloy playing the occasional game in LF. Most are worried about Eloy playing some games in RF, a position that he hasn't played since the minors. Not only would his penchant for making a clumsy mistake be more likely to get exposed in RF than LF, but playing an unfamiliar position with his big lumbering body could increase the likelihood of injury, which is the whole point of moving him to DH (nearly) full time. In all likelihood he's probably not out there in RF at all this season barring a rash of injuries to other players though. It would help if the team had a legit 4th OF on the roster.

I am aware that RBIs do not directly go into OPS, but they are correlated. And ultimately what matters is run production, which RBIs are part of. Higher OBP tends to result in more runs scored. Higher SLG tends to result in more runs batted in. Both are important contributions to total offensive production, which is why they both factor into OPS equally.

Are you trying to say that OBP is more important than SLG? Or are you saying that a .039 drop in OBP is not offset by a .029 increase in slugging? The former would be a limitation of OPS (which weighs OBP and SLG equally). The latter is just noting that 39>29. Regardless, I don't think either player has "way more value." That .029 difference in slugging resulted in the second player having nearly twice as many HRs (15 vs. 8), and a few more RBIs (53 vs. 44) in a similar number of at bats. That's probably not enough to offset the OBP difference, but it does make it close - which is exactly what's implied by OPS.