Molto

I don't consider our bullpen bad either. If Osuna is strong coming out of spring training, he'll be okay for the season. that has been his whole career. he'll struggle in preseason, do awfull in the regular and land himself on the DL. if he's healthy you have him, plus Foulke, who will pitch like he's capable. then there is Marte, who I've liked since day one, I don't think he's a fluke. I never liked Wunsch, but he proved this past year what he can do when healthy. the 5th guy in the pen is Glover, who can be and has been a strong reliever over the past couple years. then of course if we get a starter, you talking about Biddle, Rauch, and possibly one of the several minor league relievers we have filling in. I think our bullpen will be pretty good this year and for many years. I don't think we are amongst the league best, but it isn't a weakness.

Lee for Koch would seem smarter for the A's if they had a closer in the waiting. I agree with what you said baggs, it all makes sense, but I think the reason for this is that Koch will be here for a few years, while Foulke won't. also for the fact that Foulke wants to start, while Koch wants to close (or at least accepts it). I don't think we lose or win on this deal. it is very strange. if we add let's say Lee in the deal and get someone like Harang in return (of course it would have to come after thomas' future is settled) I would consider that a trade with a purpose.

I don't think that was a PTBNL. that was Miguel Olivo.

it is good knowing we don't have to play him anymore. the guy was the only thing on the Indians that hurt us.

ummm, I don't think that would happen, nor would anybody agree with that, or think it is even close to being even. now if that minor league player was Borchard and the catcher is Olivo, then it would be a possibility.

we won't be saving any money really, if you compare things to last seasons. foulke's 6 mil is his pay for 2003, he got paid 4 mil in 2002. so really we are exchanging close to 5 mil in salary for Koch, who will likely make about 4-5 mil after arbitration. so we really don't save money, if anything maybe a mil tops. the plus side to this is we'll have Koch, someone who wants to close, for a few years. and like I said before, Foulke and Koch are no different in terms of the numbers they will put up, but the reason for Foulke's success is his changeup. when his changeup isn't there, he gets lit up. success for Koch is his fastball, which can get to 101 at times. 100 MPH fastball seems more of a sure bet on a day in and day out basis than a changeup. of course Koch has had his share of blown games too, but I don't think we'll see long stretches where Koch is just bad. if this trade doesn't happen, I don't think we are any worse or better. I think the Sox are looking at getting a set closer for a few years. by getting Koch, they don't have to worry about having a ST battle between Marte and Foulke, because Koch will close, period. it is a pretty strange deal. like some have already said, we need some starting pitching, and this seems to be the only thing that has come up, a trade for a closer. perhaps we will see another move during the meetings. we need to sign or trade for a pitcher.

well, if it is a PTBNL, there shouldn't be any worry to it. those players hardly ever pan out, and if so, it would have to do more with our bad luck than anything else. of course it could be a minor league player, which is where I'm with you and most of the people on this board. if they are gonna trade someone like a Malone per se, they better get a second player in return.

http://www.soxnet.net/snreport/372-12.2.html

two things. One, I'm with Baggio in that MJ isn't a bad catcher. he would be a strong backup for a few teams in the league. Two, I don't think trading for Koch would be a bad trade. in fact, in comparing Koch and Foulke, I would rather have Koch for a closer. reason is Koch just seems to be more consistent. his whole thing is a 99-100 MPH fastball. Foulke is reliant on his changeup too much which has gotten him into a lot of trouble. I think with Koch he can just rear back and find a way out of a situation, but with Foulke, if he doesn't have it he doesn't have it. I big reason for the deal in my opinion is by getting Koch, we have no questions going into the season in regards to who our closer will be. we keep Foulke and him and Marte will have to battle or rotate. I'm not against that at all, but that may be the reason for the move.

no what I meant is there is no benefit to Heather kissing my ass. I don't mean I hate that, like I said, it is respect adn recognition, but anybody who says that to me or any staff member has no benefits to it. that is all and thanks again

see michelle, that is what I'm talking about I could see where you wouldn't like this trade, but it isn't a bad trade by a long shot. Koch is still a high end closer and could be the power reliever we haven't had in some time. wouldn't be a great trade, but it certantly wouldn't hurt us.

whoa whoa whoa, when you are right? lol I think you have some legit complaints and some of your theories are understandable, but I just put you in check when you blow things out of proportion.

first of all let me say this, whether people kiss my ass or not, it doesn't mean a damn thing, for two reasons. One, I simply don't care for it Two, what would be the benefit of kissing my ass? second, I don't see how Heather simply saying thank you means she's kissing ass. hell, I ain't gonna lie, I bust my ass on this site, as well as jason and mark. we all do what we can to make this site the best it can be. We also don't have any power so someone simply recognizing what we do isn't kiss assing in my opinion, but just simple respect. unless this is refering to something i don't know about it, I don't see anything wrong in this, whether to me or anyone.

you know what SI, that is bigger than any thanks. the key to soxnet's or soxtalk's to grow is by word of mouth. if you post on soxtalk and/or visit soxnet and know sox fans, tell them about it. we aren't making any money on this to advertise

look at that jas, there are actually a few people who like me!!!! thanks guys, I appreciate it and mike........... after seeing your post......I've been thinking......... is it too late to back out?

HSC you took that whole St Louis quote way too seriously. what do you think, every baseball player are aliens who never saw baseball before making it to the majors? almost every ball player grew up in a city or town adn rooted for a certain team, and the majority of them would like to play for them. Mark Mulder is a White Sox fan, he would like to play for the Sox, but he still goes out and signs a 4 year contract with a team he likes to play for. just because a guy is a fan of a team, doesn't mean he wants to go there at the drop of a hate. Buehrle likes it here in chicago. if the Sox play cheap and decide not to give him his worth, than yeah his next option will probably be the Cards, but you make it seem he wants to go there so badly. did you read how he wants a long term extension, meaning 3-4 years? apparently you didn't, cause that would mean he would like to stay in Chicago. you take things too seriously HSC, gotta take it easy!

oldroman, I'm with you 100%. we don't have to name names because we all know who are the pessimists. they want to be known as realists, because they are telling the truth, but in reality they are just people who like to complain. even if there is nothing wrong with the Sox, they will complain. I just find it really funny and confusing how some go to a message board just to complain. a trade is proposed and their response - NOT GONNA HAPPEN. a rumors is out saying the Sox will get this guy and their response - NOT GONNA HAPPEN. somone liking teh sox chances and believing they can win teh division and their response is - NOT GONNA HAPPEN. hell, my idea for all of them would be to have their signatures that say NOT GONNA HAPPEN and just click reply and send on every post they see. sorry to all those "pessimists" out there. don't get me wrong, you guys are smart, knowledgable, and I respect your dedication to the Sox, but you all need to lighten up a bit.

jas, I have to dissagree about Wunsch. I've never been much of a fan of his. all he has is his motion. doesn't have the best stuff and his location is adequate. I don't consider him anything more than a situational lefty out of a pen.

actually, I think it is 300,000. that is the league minimum now.

I do agree with you 100% in regards to the whole NL-AL thing. I don't think many guys can make the change and I think you have to have a wait adn see approach on it, but Ritchie's problem had nothing to do with the lineups, but himself. his location was awful, he was reluctant to use his curveball, and seemed to lose his fastball early on. Like Cereb said, Ritchie started off good in 2002 and like Cereb I think Ritchie can still be a good pitcher. I don't think I can predict 15 wins as I did so confidently last season, but he could pull out 10-12 wins, as can Daal and Wright. I think the key is to get a rotation going into ST that won't have to put too much faith in the hands of a Rauch. I think Rauch can start, but not in 2003. Buehrle, Garland, Daal, Wright, and Ritchie would be a strong rotation in my opinion. wouldn't be great, but we won't have to bring in all these spot starters and we should get consistent innings every night. plus, our bullpen will be stronger and our offense should have more energy with guys like Crede and Jimenez in the offense daily.

HSC, that is a pretty dumb question. why go after Daal and not Colon? hmmm, I could name 3 reasons. 1. is what Mark said, KW isn't in the best financial position. although he is quite good at opening JR's pockets, he has an unsigned Buehrle waiting for a contract and an unknown Frank Thomas who is likely to return. those two contracts right there could mean 8 million in 2003, OR it could mean 2-3 million. we or KW simply don't know. 2. With a Daal, you are talking about having him for possibly 2 years, maybe 3 (if they offer him another year). as opposed to Colon who is only signed for one year and will want 10 mil a year after that (if he even wants to sign with us). so the difference is 2.5 mil, it's 2.5 mil this year, plus another year or two and about 7 mil less a year in those years. 3. is that in order to get Colon, we would have to deal for the value of Colon. so we can get Daal and spend 3.5 million dollars and have him for a few years without losing anyone else. OR, we can go out and trade 3-4 guys for Colon, pay him 6 million and lose him after this season. of course, I would love to get Colon, but the fact is just because you don't get Colon doesn't mean you should forget about smaller deals, and just because you are working on a smaller deal, doesn't mean you won't get Colon. And as mark said, Daal would improve this rotation. he won't be this dominate pitcher, but he can be a solid #3 guy that will put us back into contention with the Twins.

I'm with RPS in that he is worth 7 mil a year. he's not the type of guy who is gonna put up league leading numbers, but he is a guy who is gonna drive in 100 runs and hit 30+ homers every year. problem with the some people is they don't see 100 RBI guy to be worth that much, but doing it year in and year out is what makes him valuable. also, Konerko is a fan favorite. people like his regular guy appearance. he isn't cocky, talks to the media regularly, is a team player, and is never happy with his play. defense at first is important, but it all depends on the guys offense and the infielders defense. if you have guys like Valentin on the field, you need a guy at first who can make up for the mistakes. if a guy is putting up 130 RBI a year, you can overlook any defensive woes. konerko is solid defensively. my only problem with Konerko is his range. balls hit to his right are sure hits. how many times did Harris or Durham run deep in the hole to get a grounder. he is fine outside of that. good arm, good hands, and decent with picks.

you make some good points, but I don't think our backup options are as reliable as you think. I'm not too worried with second, but if Crede or Rowand struggle, we'll have trouble finding a replacement. Liefer or Graffanino can't take on the everday duties at third and Borchard isn't ready for center. either way, we have to acquire a pitcher. whether it's a big name like Colon, or a guy like Daal. key is to sign Buehrle. once Buehrle is signed and the Thomas situation is settled, you'll see something happen.

the thing with Daal isn't just the point of getting him, but it will push Wright to the #4 spot, Ritchie to the #5, thus preventing the need for a Rauch or Biddle. not that I don't like Rauch, but we shouldn't rely on him for the start of 2003. Daal would be a decent pickup for the #3 spot, and if you think about it, would be more logical than going and getting a Colon or Moyer. hear me out, it sounds stupid, but this is how I'm thinking. if we were to get a Colon or Moyer, and let's say Jimenez, Crede, Rowand, Olivo all fall and don't play up to their potential, we WILL NOT WIN. so we could really be putting ourselves in a situation where we get a Moyer or Colon for one season, a season in which we won't a thing. SO, what would be logical would be getting a guy like Daal, or Reynolds, Traschel, Byrd, and seeing where we go from there. out team won't improve to the point where we'll be contenders, but perhaps we'll improve to the point where we can make a July 31st trade for that big name player that will then make us WS contenders.

trading carlos lee is a very TOUGH decision. he's always been considered a player with LOADS of potential. the only problem he's ever had has been his patience. he was always too agressive and was always getting beat by smart pitchers. how many times has Lee gone down swinging on a fastball (or offspeed) pitch head high and in? a lot but in the second half of 2002, he got off that. he took a TON of pitches, waited for his pitch, and tried to go to right field when needed. my fear with Lee is we won't get his true value, because I wouldn't be suprised to see him put up strong numbers this year. I can't say what they will be because he'll end up batting 6-7 in the lineup. unless Thomas signs with someone else (which is a long shot at this point). in that case, Lee will be batting third, which I have always believed is his ideal spot in the order.