77 Hitmen

Maybe die-hard Cubs fans who will hate the Sox no matter what would say that, but otherwise I seriously doubt it. Retro parks are here to stay. Many of the most popular ones that were built are now over 20 to 30 years old and no one is even hinting about replacing them. They'll be here for at least another 20 or 30 years is my guess. The only retro-era parks that didn't last are Globe Life Park (because an open-air stadium was problematic in the intense Texas heat) and Turner Field (because the Braves wanted to build an entertainment district). The only other one I can think of that I'd call a flop is the Marlins stadium in Miami. Bland, generic ballparks that lack character aren't making a comeback. Now, if the Sox built a new retro style on the site of Old Comiskey AND they continued to surround the area with nothing but parking lots, then they'll be wasting their money IMO and they'll garner criticism and still have trouble drawing fans unless they're winning pennants every few years in perpetuity. And don't get me wrong, when I go to Sox games and sit in the lower deck, I find the place very enjoyable and don't go around thinking how much it sucks. But nonetheless, it's still seen as a boring, forgettable park by many, many people....and not just by jerk Cub fans who have it in for us.

Maybe the Sox hired a hypnotist to convince him that he's been traded to the Brewers?

Pope Leo gets Aurelio's pizza handed to him while greeting a crowd at the Vatican. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pope-gets-little-slice-home-vatican-city-special-delivery-chicago-pizz-rcna222205

In other sports facility news, the San Antonio Spurs are committing $1B toward a new downtown basketball arena and entertainment district. https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2025/07/25/san-antonio-spurs-outline-proposed-investment-details-for-downtown-arena/ If built, this would be their 3rd new stadium since 1993.

Chinatown residents express concern about the new Fire stadium at the 78: https://www.nbcchicago.com/chicago-sports-bears-sox-cubs-bulls-blackhawks/chinatown-residents-express-concerns-over-proposed-chicago-fire-stadium/3802086/ https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2025/07/30/chinatown-chicago-fire-stadium

People under age 40 probably cannot really appreciate how powerful and effective WGN's Cubs hype machine was from the early 80s until about the mid 90s. Like you said in another thread: Harry and WGN.

It's been a few years since I've been to Rate Field, but my experience has always been that the service at the concessions are sooooo slooooowwww! People shouldn't underestimate how much the entire gameday experience (including before and after the game) impacts how many people a team can get to show up. It's not just as simple as fielding a winning time while providing a mediocre experience at the ballpark anymore. Maybe that worked 30 years ago, but not today. The whole Petco experience for me felt like it was on an entirely different level than what I experience at Rate Field with the only downside is that my favorite team wasn't playing.

Bingo. Everyone in the organization above Southpaw should be worried about their jobs if he starts holding people accountable when he finally takes over. Too bad we have to wait until at least 2029 to find out if that'll happen.

The Padres are an interesting, perhaps unique, case. Metro area population is middle of the pack, but interesting that it's media market is bottom 3. As you said, they get big attendance numbers (3M/year since Covid). Even when they were mediocre in the years before Covid, they drew well. Yeah, great weather and beautiful ballpark at a great location must help. Any Sox fan who says Rate Field is "just fine" should go to a stadium like Petco Park. And yes, San Diego is the only city with a MLB team and no other teams from the other major sports leagues. It'd be like if Chicago had the White Sox, but no Cubs, Bears, Bulls, and Blackhawks.

I agree. I don't think we're that far off in our opinions. Bad ownership groups across the league are definitely a problem and Manfred just wants to go around trying to convince players that the salary cap cudgel will cure their problems.

To look at it another way, of the top 12 payroll teams, only the Braves and Diamondbacks are floundering. And for the Braves, this is after they've made the postseason 7 years in a row and the D-Back are only 2 years removed from winning the pennant. If you look at all the big market teams, the only ones who aren't making the playoffs on a regular basis are the White Sox and Angels. Perhaps the Cubs too over the last 4 years, but they seem to be back in playoff contention.

Am I missing something? 4 of the 6 division leaders are high payroll, big market teams. The AL Central is all small/medium market teams (since the Sox operate like a small market team). Someone has to be in first there. If not the Tigers, then who? The Brewers are the only outlier as far as I can see. And look at who is in the lead for the wild card spots as of today: Cubs, Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Padres, Mariners. 5 of the 6 are high payroll and/or big market teams. Only Seattle isn't big market or big payroll....and they're only 1 game ahead of big market/big payroll Texas for a WC spot. And again, I agree this is an owners problem, not a players problem and just pushing a salary cap isn't the answer. But don't agree that there isn't a growing competitive balance problem in the league.

Agreed about Loria, the man who ruined the Expos franchise. Oh, and I forgot to include the 2006 Cardinals in the list of teams that have won the WS since the Marlins' last title. So, that's twice the Cardinals won it all in that timeframe, but they're one of the most successful teams in MLB history (only the Yankees have won more titles) with tons of fan support. But even they seem to be sliding into mediocrity in recent years.

That's an excellent question for Jerry Reinsdorf. It's a self-fulling prophecy IMO. For a long time, he's run this franchise like it's a small market team and he's pretty much reaped what he sowed with market share. We can only hope that Ishbia can bust us out of this "small market" mindset when he takes control. Interestingly, I just looked up all the World Series champs since the Marlins won in 2003. It's almost all major market teams for 21 seasons. I didn't realize it was so lopsided. The only exceptions were the 2006 and 2011 Cardinals (medium market) and the 2015 Royals (definitely small market). Plus the 2019 Nats, where it can be argued they're more of a medium market team than major market. Otherwise, it's all NY, Chicago, LA, Bay Area, Boston, Texas teams (those are HUGE markets), and Atlanta (once) for over 2 decades. I'd definitely consider the Braves a major market team - they own the entire South outside of Florida and have a huge regional following from their WTBS years. They're a financial powerhouse. Market size does matter. And I agree with you that a salary cap doesn't solve those issues. Look at what happened when they imposed a luxury tax and revenue sharing for smaller market teams. Teams like the Pirates just pocketed those competitive balance subsidies instead of pouring it back into the team and John Fisher drove the A's out of Oakland into nomad status for the next few years.

Two options: - Slim - None

But, what if the hot dog has ketchup on it?

I partially agree. Yes, it's an owners problem and a salary cap isn't going to fix that, but there's no denying that there's a revenue problem with some teams having a payroll of over $300M and other teams hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, including the White Sox. And while some teams have staggering amounts of debt ($450M for the Twins), the Braves are bringing in something like $600M in revenue from all their income streams (including their baseball village). Washington and Arizona aren't small market teams. The DC area is the 7th largest metro area in the US and the Phoenix area is 10th and growing. The Royals WS title was 10 years ago, the last small market team to win a WS. And yes, there are small market teams like Milwaukee, Tampa Bay and Cleveland that perpetually seem to be in the playoff hunt. But at least the latter two always have to start over again every couple of years as their good players move on to big markets. Overall, I'm probably with the players on this. The owners are all billionaires and many benefit from having taxpayer funded stadiums gifted to them. So, you're not wrong. But that doesn't mean that the economics of MLB isn't getting out of hand. The owners are going to have to clean up their own house instead of looking to imposing a salary cap on the players as a "solution".

This was reported earlier, but it's official now - in October, the Cubs' Marquee Network is moving to the same Comcast premium tier as CHSN. https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networks/comcast-confirms-marquee-sports-network-move-premium-tier.html

Bryce Harper reportedly had a spirited exchange with Manfred during a Q&A session the commissioner had with the Phillies: https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/07/28/bryce-harper-confronts-rob-manfred/

I don't know if Gossage was there, but he had some kind words to say about Allen's HOF induction in this article: https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/07/26/dick-allen-chicago-white-sox-hall-of-fame-induction/

I'm not going to scold my fellow Sox fans about whether they're going to too many or too few games. Everyone has their own personal choices to make even if a vast majority of us hate the current owner and nobody was happy with 121 losses last year. Anyway, one person boycotting the Sox isn't going to suddenly make Jerry see the light after he's been running this team this way for decades. Even when things were going well with the Sox, I never shamed anyone for not going to enough games because it's none of my business and they might have very good reasons for not going more often (financial, family issues, other commitments, etc.). Whatever it was, none of my business. I just hope the fans come back when (someday) the Sox are good again.

Just like we never thought we'd live to see them beat the 1962 Mets for losses in a season. The fans (at least the ones that even care anymore) are embarrassed, but I agree the organization probably isn't.

It's encouraging that our attendance isn't even worse and has stabilized despite the team losing 121 games last year and working on their 3rd year in a row with over 100 losses plus sharing the city with the resurgent Cubs. But, as you said, the only teams worse are Miami (who has serious attendance problems) and the 2 teams playing in minor league stadiums. But if the team ever wants to rid itself of anemic attendance, it'll have to be after Ishbia takes over and hopefully rebuilds this organization into one that is consistently competitive and perhaps also has a new stadium (which he would have to pay for) and location that is a better draw than what we've seen at Rate Field over the years. Even after the 93-win division title team in 2021, the team barely broke the 2 million mark the following season. Other than 2022, the Sox haven't broken 2M in attendance since 2011 when the last of that World Series title bump faded away.

It's always been rumored that Jerry thinks it's best to finish 2nd. Maybe that includes 2nd worst?

And to be clear, it's not because of the lower seating capacity in Sacramento. The A's aren't even close to selling out their minor league park. Here's one look at the problems they're having there. https://sportsepreneur.com/oakland-athletics-sacramento-las-vegas-as-disaster/