77 Hitmen

This would be such a White Sox outcome. It wouldn't shock me at all.

It'll be a long slog to win back market share in Chicago, that's for sure. The new owners will have their work cut out for them (both on and off the field) and the Cubs aren't going anywhere as far as attracting fans goes. The one thing that irked me about the 2012 attendance numbers is that some of JR's mouthpieces went public with "attendance shaming" Sox fans for not supporting the team enough even when they won. I'm thinking of Don Cooper, specifically. Typical Reinsdorf PR blunder and "blame the fans" mindset that we've been dealing with since 1981. The next owners can start off by realizing the fans are NOT the problem. Sox fans are as loyal and diehard as anyone. As @WBWSF noted, making games affordable to families will help. The good news is that the Ishbias have offered affordable concessions at Suns games. Something like that would be a good start. But IMO, they'll have to do more than just make the Sox a discount alternative to the Cubs if they want to be more than an afterthought in this city.

The economics of baseball have changed. It looks to me like teams are finding that developing the land around a stadium is a much bigger money maker than surface parking lots. I wonder how often the Sox actually fill up all of their parking lots. Even at games with 35k+ in attendance, do the lots ever get full? And even if the Sox had middle of the pack attendance, how many times a year would they actually need all those parking spaces? It looks like other sports teams are redeveloping a good chunk of the surface lots around their stadiums. The Mets and Phillies are the latest. Heck, even in our own city, the Bulls and Blackhawks are spending billions to turn most of parking around the United Center into the "1901 Project". Whether the Sox move to the 78 or stay at 35th & Shields and redevelop much of the parking lots, I am sure there will be parking available for fans. It just won't be dozens of acres of surface lots adjacent to the stadium.

Former Sox pitcher Rich Hinton has also passed away. He was drafted by the White Sox in 1969 and had three stints with the Sox between 1971 and 1979. He also played for the 1976 "Big Red Machine" Cincinnati Reds, who won the World Series that year. https://www.newsweek.com/sports/mlb/former-yankees-pitcher-world-series-champion-passes-away-2122455

After that totally blew up in their faces with the last round of emerging talent? I doubt it. If Montgomery can sustain this type of success, we just have to hope that the Sox are under new ownership by the time he gets close to free agency. Otherwise, get ready for another Cease or Crochet-type trade to kick off the next "rebuild"

That's crazy that the Stateway Gardens land is still mostly vacant given the shortage and demand for affordable housing in the city. Yes, I seriously doubt they'd change the orientation of the current park if they stay there. That would be insanely expensive for not building a completely new park. I'm not sure what they could do with the current park. Perhaps add some sort of "home run porch" in RF as had been rumored when they did the major renovations 20 years ago. I seem to recall that some renderings floating out there at the time also showed adding a new "grand entrance" somewhere along 35th St. And, of course, develop some sort of commercial district on much of the parking lots.

Based on historical data, NO. The only time they were higher than 15th in attendance in the last 30 years was 2006, the year after the won the World Series. In 2005, they were 15th and by 2007 they were back down to 15th. They were reigning division champs in 2009 and 2022 and were 16th and 19th in attendance, respectively. https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/mlb_attendance/ If it was as simple as "just winning", the vast majority of MLB teams wouldn't have wasted their time over the last 30 years building ballparks with character and in locations that attract more fans. If the Sox stay at their current ballpark (which is very possible if not probable), the new owners are going to have to do something with the stadium and its surroundings.

Good post. Suburban ballpark developments work in Atlanta and Arlington because of the sprawled nature of those regions and the culture of decentralized, car-oriented development there. I don't think it would work well in most cities and certainly not Chicago. A "baseball village" at, say, Arlington Park would definitely have a "mallpark" feel whereas a development either at 35th St or the 78 could be integrated into the surrounding urban environment and could feel more organic. As I've posted before, I don't think the Sox catering to people who are afraid of the city and afraid to take mass transit is a winning formula for future success. And yes, I'd imagine the Ishbias would be crazy to not conduct some formal analysis of the feasibility of developing the parking lots around Rate Field into some sort of "ballpark village" vs. building a privately-funded ballpark at the 78 and developing the land there along with the Fire for retail/restaurants. One benefit of a new stadium at the 78 is that the new owners could rid themselves of the well-documented design flaws of the current stadium. We'll see what they decide to do. It's not my billions. If (and that's a huge IF), the Sox do move to the 78, I can't imagine the 70+ acres that the ISFA owns at Rate Field would fall into vacant lot or "dollar lot" status. It's location in a gentrifying area and close to mass transit lines is too valuable for that to happen. With the demand for more housing in the area, it's a prime candidate to be developed into a residential area that can probably provide a mixed type of housing that has been in demand.

The fight for 40 games under .500!

Here's an article about the Royals' search for a new stadium site that gives a very good general analysis of 3 types of ballpark locations (suburbs, city neighborhood, downtown) and where these types of locations currently work or could work for the other MLB teams. https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/46030983/mlb-ballparks-future-stadiums-kansas-city-royals-downtown-suburbs-village-model For those fans who think there's nothing wrong with Rate Field or who advocate moving the Sox out to the suburbs, here's a couple of noteworthy quotes: "If all that mattered were the aesthetics of watching a game, or the drive-and-park convenience, the Royals would stay put. But in 2025, that's not enough." "Any team thinking of making a move to the suburbs for its own Battery has to take a careful look at what is different about its market from Atlanta, which in some studies has been measured as the most sprawled-out large metro area in the country."

Yeah, that's some crazy logic in that tweet. As far as the grass isn't always greener, that's true, but have you seen the lawn that Uncle Jerry has given Sox fandom over the last 3 years?

Here's some good news for all those Sox fans out there who are Ishbia haters: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/46091616/suns-ishbia-sued-minority-owners-seeking-records-access

Speaking of Stephen Nesbitt, he also has a recent article where he takes a look at how various teams are progressing in their quest to land a MLB expansion team. It's a good summary of various factors such as potential ownership groups lined up, public funding for a stadium, etc. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6577020/2025/08/27/mlb-expansion-cities-salt-lake-city-nashville-raleigh-portland/ I'd be shocked if MLB puts a 3rd team in Florida with an Orlando expansion team since the other 2 teams have had serious problems with attendance for years. Maybe if the Rays move to Orlando, but IMO they'd be crazy to cram in 2 teams in the I-4 corridor.

Stephen Nesbitt of the Athletic has an article on MLB realignment. His proposal is the same as what I suggested earlier in this thread. And I didn't come up with it because I'm exceptionally bright (I'm not!), it was because that alignment makes too much logical sense and it doesn't take much effort to come up with an alignment that groups teams by geography without taking a torch to tradition. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6560635/2025/08/19/mlb-expansion-realignment-leagues-projection/ I hope this is the direction MLB takes after expansion. But I'm not holding my breath as it looks like Manfred has no qualms with obliterating the American League and National League.

This was the only news article I was able to find about his passing. RIP. https://www.newsweek.com/sports/mlb/former-cardinals-catcher-longtime-baseball-coach-manager-passes-away-2118840

Here's the City's planning and development website for the 78. This is at least 5 years old and before any talk of sports stadiums being built on the site. It does mention the Red Line subway station at the site as well as realigning the Metra tracks https://www.chicago.gov/city/en/depts/dcd/supp_info/the-78.html The Fire said they're dropping the CTA station to save on cost, but if the Sox do build there, i'd imagine it's back on the table. They also said they were not doing to realign the Metra tracks, but I don't know how you could skip that and properly develop the south end of the property.

The Sox have added a marker on the future Pope Leo's seat from the World Series game. https://www.churchpop.com/chicago-white-sox-honor-pope-leo-by-marking-seat-from-world-series-he-attended-in-2005/

Over two seasons?

Yep, when was the last time a Sox GM ever worked in MLB again? 30 years ago? Same with managers. Ozzie's the last one after he walked out on the team because he already had another job lined up and then crashed and burned after only 1 season in Miami. Nobody since then. Before that, Jerry Manuel went on to manage the Mets after he was fired after the 2003 season.

....and then back to Chicago after that. Perhaps Manfred needs examples of ridiculous travel schedules to help him achieve his dream of abolishing the American League and National League.

I wonder where the Marlins franchise goes from here. The A's and Rays have their own debacles, but they'll both likely end up with new ballparks in a few years. The Marlins already got their shiny new (2012) ballpark and their attendance still has been at the bottom of the league by far for years when not counting the Rays and A's.

As was discussed in the broadcast team thread, Jerry's franchise is good at ranking 27th in the league for various things.

I'd be shocked if Ishbia is spending around $2B to buy a franchise only to keep a bunch of incompetent clowns in charge of operating the team. He's not an idiot - he knows the Sox are losing market share and have struggled with anemic attendance and waning interest for years. He's also not going to starting throwing money at high priced free agents when the team's management is incapable of evaluating and developing talent.

He's also not, at age 89, going to suddenly start hiring competent people over loyalists to run this organization after decades of not doing so.

And they didn't have back to back playoff appearances until 2021. They were the last American League team to do this. Every expansion team had managed to have back to back playoffs before the Sox. I'm not sure if any NL team has failed to make the playoffs in back to back seasons.