77 Hitmen

We're talking about 2 different situations. I agree that it's extremely unlikely for the Sox to move to another market. Yes, I don't see MLB approving it - certainly not in a way that undercuts expansion ambitions in some cities (Nashville). I'm in agreement that any hint of this from Jerry is almost certainly bluff to try to extort taxpayer money for a new park. My point was in reaction to some fans saying "let them move! MLB will certainly grant a new expansion team to Chicago". Those are two different things and I never said I thought MLB would okay a Sox move. What I'm saying is that *IF* the league lets the Sox move, I just don't see MLB bringing an expansion team to Chicago so people should stop fantasizing that particular scenario playing out. Of course, we don't get to the whole expansion question if MLB owners aren't going to approve a Sox move in the first place. So, it's really just a "If this, Then that" hypothetical and therefore basically a pointless argument since (thankfully) I don't think we'd get past that first hurdle of the league okaying a move. I mean, the league did approve the A's move, after that dragged on for years and they really do play in a dilapidated stadium and that just can't continue indefinitely....and even that's not exactly going smoothly. GRF isn't anywhere near close to that situation. Our problem is a dilapidated ownership, not a dilapidated stadium.

If you're going by MSA definition, they seem to split SF/Oakland into a separate area than San Jose. When you combine the two, the population is 6.5M vs. Chicagoland's 9.2M. That isn't half. And that doesn't count the nearby Sacramento MSA that adds another 2.4M market that brings them pretty close to the Chicago market without encroaching on another team's territory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area I'll also note that once you go outside the actual Chicago metro area, downstate IL is all Cubs and Cardinals fans for all intents and purposes. Go north and you run into the Brewers market. Not much of an extended market for the Sox. Also, you have to factor in cities like Salt Lake City where the city/state are ready to pay a stupid amount of public money to build a MLB stadium. So, does Chicagoland's size matter? Yes, I agree that it does. Will MLB put blinders on and only look at the numbers from the MSA list? No, I disagree that they'd approach it that way. We can go back and forth all day on this and not get anywhere. The truth is that we can't know for sure until this is actually put the the test with a Sox relocation.....and I hope it never comes to that and I don't think it will. My point remains that people shouldn't go around saying that the Sox leaving wouldn't be a problem because it's a slam dunk that MLB will prioritize bringing a 2nd team back to Chicago.

I get that and yes it's been discussed umpteen times. I just don't think MLB looks only purely at fractions of metro area numbers when deciding where they want to expand. It might be a consideration, but I doubt it's a priority and I expect other factors will outweigh their desire to have another team for 1/3 of Chicago metro. Manfred already said that the A's leaving the Bay Area is okay because they still have the Giants. Yeah, I know he's retiring, but I don't see that mindset changing regardless of who succeeds him. Could MLB bring another team back to Chicago, sure it could happen. I just think people need to get real and stop telling themselves the Sox leaving is "okay" because it's a sure thing that MLB will make it a priority to have 2 teams in Chicago.

FWIW, the LaSalle St Metra terminal for the Rock Island line is walking distance from The 78. Also, if the site is ever developed, plans are to have a Red Line station added at the site (the Red Line currently runs underground right by the SE corner of the site. I don't know if the Metra realignment will happen anyway with the DPI project. Maybe not, but I haven't heard.

I don't think it'll happen, either. It's not because of territorial rights. Chicago just isn't a 2-team city. That we have 2 teams is a relic from a bygone era. The only 2-franchise cities/metro areas now are NY and LA. I don't think the Sox will move, but if they do then people need to stop deluding themselves into thinking MLB will rush to bring a 2nd team back to Chicago. They won't - they want to expand MLB into other markets, not have another team go up against the Cubs at a 40-year old generic ballpark. If some fans don't care about the Sox leaving Chicago, fine - just don't pretend that another team will be waiting in the wings. Also, if the argument is that MLB will want "American League" representation in Chicago, again that's sorely outdated. Every team plays every other team each year now. The meaning of AL and NL has been completely watered down. MLB will be more likely to engage in radical realignment (which would obliterate the AL and NL for all intents and purposes) than move heaven and earth to bring a 2nd team back to Chicago.

WTTW's article about the Sox/Related Midwest PR event. Kittle, Baines, Ozzie, and Bo Jackson were there. https://news.wttw.com/2024/09/17/white-sox-should-seek-private-funding-new-stadium-not-taxpayer-money-illinois-house

That wouldn't surprise me at all. State officials could tell him he needs to pay $10M toward a new stadium for every Sox loss this season. He'd be on the hook for something like $1.2B by the time this train wreck is over in 10 days.

It looks like this "pop up" ball field cost somewhere in the $500k range to create. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/exclusive-developer-pushes-for-white-sox-stadium-despite-lawmakers-doubts/3551841/ If they want to pitch this to private investors to make a privately financed new stadium a reality, then more power to them. Otherwise, surely they must realize by now that they aren't getting public funding for a new baseball stadium that will enrich Sox ownership (other than money for infrastructure work at and around the site).

I only found out about this site maybe 5 years ago. I wish I had found it sooner. I've been lurking for a while and only bothered to sign up with an account this past winter. Funny to see so many WSI "castaways" here at SoxTalk. WSI is still around, but a shell of its former self. They've been hemorrhaging members for many years due to overzealous, power-hungry mods who banned or ridiculed away anyone who disagreed with them. I'm fine with some degree of that against some of the more really obnoxious posters and I get that moderating sites isn't easy, but when you're driving away MOST of your members, then the problem isn't the posters - it's the mods. To be fair, the mods that drove people away are long gone from the site now. The three or so who remain are pretty cool IMO and I don't blame them for the current sad state of that site, but the damage has been done. Just a small number of active posters now - even before the team totally fell off a cliff the last couple of years. Hard to get a lot of interesting engagement when membership drops that low.

Oh I agree that a move to another city is highly unlikely. I won't say the chances are zero, but they're pretty low. Just look at hard it's been for the A's (in a much worse stadium situation) to move to Vegas. I'm just saying that even if such a move became plausible, I don't think many elected officials would feel pressure to cave in to the Sox to avoid being punished by voters for "losing the Sox". In fact, I think they'd get more voter support for telling Jerry Reinsdorf to go stuff it. Fewer people would care about losing the Sox than did in 1988. And more Sox fans than ever are fed up with Jerry crying poor all the time on his way to becoming a billionaire. That saddens me in a way as a Sox fan because apathy for this team has reached a new low (or is it "high" grammatically?), but at the same time I'd be satisfied with lawmakers saying "No way" to more JR bailouts. And I'm in support of a new South Loop ballpark - if Sox ownership PAYS FOR IT.

Unfortunately, I think at this point, there won't be much of a cost politically to elected officials if they refuse to finance a new Sox stadium and Jerry moves the team to another city. I can't imagine any of our politicians being voted out of office over losing the Sox. Any outcry for losing the Sox will be much, much lower than it was even in 1988.

This is pretty well established and understood to everyone except Jerry Reinsdorf. Maybe he knows it too, but he's prone to self-delusion, so who knows. I don't think anyone is questioning this. But he's 88 years old and isn't going to live forever. At some point there will be a new Sox owner and that's when the possibility that new ownership decides it's worth their while to privately finance a new ballpark in the South Loop becomes more of a possibility. I think we tend to focus on Reinsdorf as if he'll be the owner 10 years from now, when he'd be pushing the century mark. Or JR could decide, after the state calls his bluff, that putting up his own money for a new park will be worth it for the resulting boost in franchise value. Probably not, but that's another option for how this could move forward.

I had also read that the Metra tracks that run through that lot would need to be realigned and at a lower grade to make the area accessible from Clark St. in a practical way. And yeah, if somehow the Sox and Related Midwest said they'd 100% privately finance construction of the site as long as the city/state paid for the infrastructure work, then I can see such a deal getting done. It'll run into some serious money, but it's something that could be sold to the politicians. Yes, I get that there's an argument that the infrastructure costs are still not worth it to the taxpayers. I'm just saying that I think such a deal could be done and sold to the public.

Now that you mention it, even if Jerry goes ahead with building a stadium with private funding, my concern is that he'll mess up the design just like he did with New Comiskey. He reportedly had an active role in the design of the current park - rejected a Camden Yards-like design, pushed the upper deck even higher to get another row of luxury boxes below it, etc. The park quickly ended up looking stale and generic and the ISFA had to spend millions to fix some of the mistakes after only about 10 years. Somehow, he'd find a way to squeeze any charm and character out of a new ballpark if given another chance at a new park. You just know he would because that's what he does with anything related to the White Sox.

This mess is not Jerry Reinsdorf's fault........says Jerry Reinsdorf.

That's true. The KC Chiefs got their stadium renovations voted down and they've won 3 Super Bowls in the last 5 years. But, just like the way he runs his baseball team, Jerry thinks it's still 1991. He's totally out of touch on both. Jerry and the Wirtz family have apparently managed to come up with $7B in private financing to redevelop the parking lots around the UC. But he can only come up with $200M toward the 78 ballpark development? And yeah, Rusty may have a point about this being a ruse for getting a new, long-term sweetheart deal at GRF. That's certainly possible.

The Sox and Related Midwest have constructed a temporary baseball diamond at The 78 where they want to build a new ballpark. This won't magically get them public funding, but I have to say that I like that view of the skyline from there. If the Sox want to privately finance a new stadium there, I'm all for it. https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2024/08/30/the78-white-sox-stadium-related-midwest

The Sox heading to shattering the 1962 Mets futility record isn't exactly going to help JR get the taxpayer money he desires. His incompetence is working against him here.

My guess (and yes, it's just a guess from some nobody), is that a new Sox stadium will eventually happen after JR is gone and that new Sox ownership will privately finance the ballpark itself while they get the state/city to cover infrastructure costs. I get that the infrastructure costs are not small potatoes and some could argue that's not a good use of taxpayer money. But, I just think that kind of deal is sellable to politicians. As far as private financing for the stadium itself, if the Rays in a smaller market can come up with $700M in private money and the small market Royals can commit to $1B in private financing for the new park they want, then I think a new Sox ownership group can somehow manage to come up with at least that amount because they believe this will enhance the value of the franchise long-term. And my opinion plus $6 will get you a small drink at Starbucks. 😉

When Reinsdorf no longer owns the team.

It should be pretty clear by now that there isn't going to be much in the way of public funding for either the Bears or the Sox aside from money going to infrastructure improvements. This should be clear to the McCaskeys and Reinsdorf. There's no political advantage for the Gov or the Legislature to give these billionaires billions in taxpayer money. None - it's not going to happen. My predictions: The Bears end up building a stadium at Arlington Park using private financing as originally proposed. There, they can build a massive entertainment complex next to a domed stadium that can draw private investments. The Sox will eventually build a new stadium at Lot 78 using private financing for the ballpark itself and public funds for site improvement (new Red Line stop, Metra tracks realignment, Riverwalk). This might not happen until Jerry is gone, but as long as that land is undeveloped, it'll be available for a new Sox owner even if it's a few years from now. If Reinsdorf and the Wirtz family can come up with $7B in private funding to redevelop the parking lots around the UC, it's not hard to imagine JR or his successor coming up with less than that amount to make a Lot 78 development happen.

You nailed it.

I like Roeper and appreciate his dedicated Sox fandom. But, he doesn't mention the elephant in the room that is the cause of all this misery and incompetence: JERRY REINSDORF!!!

Why would WinTrust pay more money just to call the place Comiskey Park? Where's the advertising benefit to the company? I'm actually surprised that this is Jerry's call instead of the ISFA, which is the owner of the stadium.

As far as rooting against the Sox goes, the way I see it is what's the point? They aren't getting any better than the #10 pick, so it's not like I'd be rooting for a higher pick. Root for them to lose so badly that it forces changes in management and forces Jerry to rethink how he's running the team? Ha! This is Jerry Reinsdorf we're talking about, he's not capable at looking to himself to blame and even if he fires people, he'll just replace them with some other Yes Man who is equally incompetent. We'll just get people who are just as unqualified as Getz, Grifol, etc. I just hope this franchise survives the mass erosion to its fan base that is taking place under this clown show and will continue to take place with Jerry in charge. Maybe, just maybe, the Sox can experience a revitalization under new ownership some day. Hopefully there will be enough fans left to care at that point.