77 Hitmen

^ This sums it all up for me. The Sox will never be "consistently competitive" again (as the OP asked) as long as JR is in charge. Period. This organization is bad in so many ways and there's no quick fix until Jerry's no longer owner and there's a major fundamental change to how it is operated. Right now it's rotten to the core. We're stuck in baseball hell at least until Ishbia takes over and then we just have to hope he makes dramatic changes and actually hires competent people to run this team. That's not guaranteed to work, but it can't be worse than how things are going now. Until Jerry's no longer owner, any talk of which band-aids to slap on this team to make it legitimately competitive is simply a waste of my time.

The Bears have sent out a survey to fans about various costs and amenities at a new stadium: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2025/07/12/bears-test-waters-on-fan-appetite-for-amenities-exorbitant-prices-at-potential-new-stadium https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2025/07/10/bears-send-out-stadium-survey-to-season-ticket-holders/

Absolutely.

IMHO, I'd rather that Ishbia's infusion of capital goes to shoring up the organization instead of worrying about high-priced FAs at least through 2026. And I hope that part of this infusion goes towards settling the ballpark situation after the lease is up 2029. Whether it's getting a new park built at the 78 or having major changes at 35th and Shields, something needs to be done.

Ah yes, the good old "the Sox play in a crime infested hellhole" trope.

Yep, last I checked the Cubs play under the same Mayor and Governor and same set of taxes. And I've never heard of them having a hard time attracting free agents because of all the things that some people hate about Chicago and Illinois. And I'd hazard to guess that there are lots of "idiot" mayors and governers out there across the MLB cities.

This is quite baffling to me. Very frustrating to us fans, too. This is how a team makes it to 121 losses. I can't figure out the logic in this long-standing approach. Perhaps Jerry is just philosophically opposed to spending more money than minimally necessary on this kind of thing. He's also very insular and wants to hire loyalists, not the best front office talent that money can buy. At any rate, I have always thought the way he's approached operating this team is "penny wise and dollar foolish". He has allowed the major league payroll to rise to the top 10, so it's not that he never wants to spend money on anything.

Here's a link to that story (for those who have a NY Times subscription): https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6484590/2025/07/09/mlbpa-bruce-meyer-rob-manfred-salary-cap/

The Reinsdorf era can't end soon enough for me. At least he might be doing one good thing for this franchise on his way out in getting a local, deep-pocketed billionaire lined up to be the next owner.

You make a strong argument for the 1994 debacle being the worst among PR blunders. It's just sad IMO that we Sox fans have so many PR debacles to choose from and debate which is worse in the Reinsdorf era. All of these events are cumulative and not only one terrible move that led to the franchise's current situation even if JR being the ringleader for cancelling the 1994 season while the Sox were World Series contenders takes the cake. I just disagree that all the other factors had zero % impact on the Sox market share. The Cubs on WGN/Sox on SportsVision with Harry as the Cubs' pied piper era had zero % impact on market share? I have a hard time believing that.

You'll have to forgive us, it's difficult for long-suffering Sox fans to keep track of all the ways Jerry has damaged the Sox market share in Chicago. Maybe a handy pocket guide or flow chart for the first 10,000 fans through the turnstiles to watch their 110th loss this year? And while we're adding to the list of things we shouldn't forget - how about the whole New Comiskey debacle where JR and EE threatened to move the team to St. Pete and then had a generic, charmless new ballpark built that became outdated and widely disliked 1 year later when Camden Yards opened. Has it ever been confirmed that Jerry was presented with an option to build a retro-park like what the O's did and he rejected it? 35 years later and we're still arguing (with people who aren't Sox fans and even amongst ourselves) about whether the park any is good or not. Earlier, Caulfield mentioned WGN in addition to Harry and Sosa. Let's not forget the whole SportsVision debacle. The Cubs having every game broadcast nationwide on WGN was beyond the Sox control, but JR and EE moved all but a few games to pay TV (for $15/month in 1982 dollars) and a whole generation of Chicago fans grew up watching the Cubs because the Sox were hardly ever on free TV. Maybe 30 games/year on WFLD from 1982 onward? I know it wasn't practical at the time to have every Sox game on free TV since WSNS switched to a pay TV service, but could the Sox have stuck with more free TV games on WGN? In 1981, I believe WGN was scheduled to broadcast (before the strike cancelled a bunch of games) something like 60 Sox games. But Jerry and Eddie didn't want 60 games on free TV because that would have undercut their pay TV scheme.

The only thing that is clear to me is that the Bears and the Sox will have to come up with all (or at least nearly all) of the money for the stadium itself. The Bears are said to be committing at least $2B in private financing toward a new stadium. But there's still a lot of tax payer money that could potentially be approved for infrastructure and development of the land around the actual stadium. That's what's happening in DC - the Commanders are paying $2.7B for the stadium itself but there's something like $1B in public money that will be spent to develop the rest of the site. Right or wrong, good investment or bad, I can see politicians approving such costs when they can go back to the voters and say these are privately financed stadiums. As far as the Sox go, my guess is that the new owner will need to commit at least $1B in private financing if he wants a new stadium as Jerry has been angling for. Let's say for the sake of argument that Ishbia does exactly that - say he'll privately finance $1B to build a new Sox ballpark. Is it still a "no way" from state officials as far as any public money going to that project? I really don't know. I don't think it's quite so obvious at that point.

Fair enough. I know my list is very subjective. As far as Sale goes, it'll depend if he can have another few years of his 2024 performance to see where his legacy ends up.

This was the story I read with the one rep saying they were "close and just ran out of time." We'll see in a few months - it's just one elected official saying that while the reps from Chicago (who would lose the Bears to AH) don't share the same optimism. https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/06/01/general-assembly-bears-stadium/ I'm not sure how this would impact the White Sox, but I'd imagine *IF* Justin Ishbia wants a new stadium for the team he's going to buy AND is willing to commit private financing for the ballpark itself, then a deal to help the Bears could help pave the way for action to help with infrastructure needs for a new Sox stadium. And there's also the Fire saying they want to break ground at the 78 this fall. We'll see if that indeed happens and what kind of infrastructure investment the city/state commits for that site to get the Fire stadium built.

The Commanders new stadium has a price tag of $2.7B (which the team is paying) but the whole project will cost ~$4B when you count infrastructure and other development at the site. That's probably how you get to $5B for the Bears since they want to develop more than just a stadium at Arlington Park. Heck, the 1901 Project at the UC is supposed to cost $7B. And the proposed redevelopment of the parking lots around Citi Field in NYC reportedly has an $8B price tag. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/44893202/washington-commanders-dc-reach-deal-new-stadium-rfk-site

The new Washington Commanders stadium So, you think that 75% of all the people in Cook Country are grifters or (gasp) government workers? And that being in a union automatically makes someone a grifter? Sounds far fetched. And I'm not sure what government workers have to do with building a new stadium.

And at least Jerry hired people in the first 20 years or so that could develop talent internally (the late 80s core and the late 90s/early 00s core). That has mostly dried up over the last 20 years. I know it's still to be seen if Crochet has nearly as much of a success as Sale in his career, but his trade followed the same pattern: the Sox are so bad at fielding a winning team and developing talent, that he may as well be traded for some top prospects since he's being wasted here. And the Sox were never going to pay him when he was up for free agency anyway if he gets good enough.

You're right. I knew they got him in a trade of course, but I thought he was a minor leaguer at the time who later came up to the majors for the Sox. At any rate, he was at the very beginning of his MLB career when he came over to the Sox with only 25 games with the Rangers.

While more expensive for sure, I doubt that being in IL would more than double the price of a stadium. There has to be more to the $5B figure than just the stadium itself. We'll see what happens in the fall IL legislative session. One of the state reps suggested they were really close to a deal, but ran out of time in the spring.

Sounds like I struck a nerve. How does Bell's TOTAL RBI's for both 92 and 93 seasons help this team when they really needed him in 1993 when they went to the ALCS and only won 2 games against the Jays. You didn't answer where Bell was during the 1993 playoffs. As I said before, the Sox sure could have used Sammy's bat that year when he was knocking in 93 RBIs while Bell was one step away from pumping gas for a living. Oh, and the Sox finished 3rd in 1992, so Bell put up great numbers that year for a team that went nowhere. I hate Sosa as much as anyone, but let's be real here. During the Reinsdorf era, I'd say the Sox had 4 players with generational talent that they brought up from their minor league system: - Thomas: first ballot HOFer inducted as a Sox player - Sosa: traded away for one good season of George Bell while Sosa supercharged the Cubs popularity in Chicago, though later disgraced (and rightfully so) - Tatis: superstar for the Padres after traded for a washed up pitcher - Chris Sale: Elite starter for years before and after Sox traded him. Traded in an attempt to stock the Sox system with talent for a rebuild. But Moncada and Kopech were total flops. Sox were never going to pay for an extension for him anyway. Am I missing anyone? Not exactly a great track record for Jerry's franchise.

Bingo. It wasn't until Sosa burst onto the scene that the Cubs averaged 30k per game year in and year out and they haven't looked back except for during Covid. And the last two you listed were given to the Cubs by the White Sox on a silver platter.

So, you think Bell having 64 RBIs in 1993 was worth trading away a generational talent like Sosa? Sosa had 93 RBIs that year vs. Bell's 64 if we're treating that one stat as the only indicator of success. Bell's slash line in 1993 was .217/.243/.363 with a -2.5 WAR. Woof! And where was he during our 1993 postseason when the Sox needed him? We sure could have used Sosa's bat then. After that Bell was out of baseball. He never played another game after 1993. Sox coaching staff being unable to work with such an immense talent speaks more to the failing of this organization than it does to a player whose career took off like a rocket after he left this organization. I don't know about other Sox fans, but I'll take chopped liver over the s%*# sandwich that this trade was for the Sox. And yeah, Sammy turned out to be a huge fraud, but in the meantime he help supercharged the Cubs' edge over the Sox in the Chicago market beginning in 1998 and they've never looked back. Somehow they've survived the embarrassment of Sosa's steroid/corked bat/walking out on the team debacle.

What's even more galling is that taxpayers are still on the hook for something like $600M from the last Soldier Field renovation in 2002. In a way, them asking for more taxpayer $ again for a new stadium is worse than JR's request (which is plenty galling)

The new Titans domed stadium in Nashville costs $2.2B and the renderings of it look impressive. Why would a Bears stadium cost well over twice as much? And you're not wrong that a $5B price tag has been reported for a Bears stadium at AH. Is the other $3B for development of the rest of the Arlington Park property? As far as a Sox stadium at the 78, it's possible that the Ishbias' plan is to keep the Sox at their current location. If they are actually planning to privately finance a new stadium at the 78, who's to say they aren't working behind the scenes to make that happen? Sure, we fans want to know one way or another asap, but I don't expect them to think that they need to negotiate all their plans in public. Heck, has Justin Ishbia made any public announcement of his deal with Reinsdorf to (eventually) buy the Sox?

I'd imagine it's a lot easier for the city and state to justify that infrastructure funding if there's also a (privately financed) MLB stadium going into the site. Having a Red Line station right at 15th and Clark would be huge for the site. That line already runs underground at that intersection.