77 Hitmen

The 1901 Project that is being initiated by Reinsdorf and the Wirtz family: https://news.wttw.com/2024/07/23/united-center-owners-unveil-7b-proposal-redevelop-area-surrounding-arena-mixed-use-space A music hall, residential units, retail space. Jerry Reinsdorf did NOT buy the land to move the Sox there. As far as a suburban location, I know there's a difference of opinion among Sox fans, but IMO a suburban site would be a terrible idea. Most MLB teams have found moving to the downtown area to be successful without surrounding themselves with a ton of surface parking lots. Only big sprawl metro areas like Atlanta and the DFW metroplex go against that. Even the Mets and Phillies have plans to redevelop the parking lots surrounding their ballparks. Somewhere near Oakbrook would be central to the Chicagoland area, but where's the land for such a massive development?

I suppose you could add Bill Veeck to that list, too. Jerry and Eddie immediately offended and alienated Veeck after they bought the club and he said he'd never set foot in Comiskey Park again and went on to become a fixture at the Wrigley Field bleachers for the last few years of his life. So, in an era when the Sox off the field were known for: Harry (and his 7th inning stretch), Veeck, and Nancy Faust; Jerry and Eddie handed over the first two over the the Cubs on a silver platter. I remember thinking that at least we still had Nancy and hoping that the Cubs wouldn't get her, too. And of course, the "Sunshine Boys" also traded in all the charm and character of Old Comiskey (which had it's flaws, no doubt) for a sterile, generic looking new ballpark.

This fits the Sox PR moves during the Reinsdorf era to a tee. Four decades of eliminating as much character and charm from the ballpark experience as possible and driving away fan favorites: Harry Caray, Nancy Faust, Jason Benetti. Hawk was a fan favorite but a total JR ass kisser. It's no wonder the market share for this team has sunk to new lows (it's not just the on the field product). Quite a few other teams still have organists. I know it's a dying art and I'd imagine finding actual organists must be getting more difficult over time, but it's been so integral to the Sox game experience for decades and it's so typical of the Sox to white wash it away.

How much room is there on this Sox Mt. Rushmore of Infamy? Jerry Reinsdorf The Rick Hahn/KW dynamic duo Tony LaRussa (the JR confidant/advisor) Combo of Tony LaRussa/Robin Ventura/Pedro Grifol (managers) Drake LaRoche (clubhouse leader) John Schriffen Jerry Reinsdorf (to bookend the entire shitshow) The sad thing is, I didn't even get to any players like Nick "Captain Morgan" Swisher, Adam LaRoche, James Shields, Adam Dunn, etc.

This is going to trigger some posters, but IMO this ties back to the whole ballpark situation. The SportsVision debacle followed by the botched design of New Comiskey Park nine years later with lack of anything to do around the park has really put this franchise in a huge hole as far as winning over market share in Chicago. Progress was made in winning over more fans after the 2005 championship, but that bump is ancient history now. They did an admirable job in improving the ballpark in the early 2000s, but issues still remain with some aspects of the park design and with lack of much to do around the location. Short of winning multiple pennants in quick succession, which isn't exactly easy to do even with competent ownership/management, it'll be really tough to make inroads against the Cubs, who even in down times, are a big draw thanks to their ballpark and neighborhood. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the next owner of the White Sox will see investment in a new ballpark in the South Loop as the best way to turnaround the fortunes of this franchise on a long-term basis and as a good ROI for the value of the franchise. Boasting that the current park is near expressways and has acres of convenient parking lots is no longer a winning formula for MLB teams in the current era of how people decide to spend their entertainment dollars.

Yep, you beat me to it. Not only was Chicago not wired for cable, but Jerry and Eddie basically ceded an entire generation of baseball fans to the Cubs as that team skyrocketed to national popularity. And many suburbs were actually wired for cable by 1982/83 (our family got it in 1983), but I want to say it was maybe 5(???) years before they finally moved SportsVision from a premium channel subscription to basic cable. Epic failure of a product, but to his dying day, Eddie Einhorn would claim he was right all along about the pay TV sports model. .....and I think that's part of the reason why this franchise has fallen to such lows Jerry and (while he was around) Eddie never had an ounce of self-reflection. They only wanted vindication for the moves they made with the Sox. As far as CHSN goes. I expect both them and the Cubs' Marquee Network to end up on Comcast's more expensive tier.

What is more fanciful, the idea that the Sox under new ownership might privately fund a new stadium in the South Loop, or that the Ishbias will spend $2B to buy a franchise and keep them at the current location surrounded by the same acres of parking for the next 30 years? I'd say the latter is less likely. Maybe the new owners can turn the area around the current park into a thriving entertainment district to keep up with today's baseball economics, but I have my doubts about that. But, then again, maybe the 78 is indeed a cursed Indian burial site, perpetually tied to criminals, a Love Canal-like toxic waste site, and Chicago's version of the Bermuda Triangle all wrapping into one. In which case, then yeah, anyone talking about this site is crazy.

How to you define "downtown"? Is it the actual physical loop bordered by Van Buren, Wells, Lake and Wabash? IMO, most people define it as a broader area. And the 78 is a 15 minute walk to the Van Buren El station, which is the southern boundary of the actual "Loop". And no one goes downtown in the evenings anyways? I've seen plenty of people coming off the Metra heading downtown while I'm on my way home.

Exactly. The best that can be said about the current park is that die hard Sox fans think it's fine and doesn't suck. There's a reason why it's consistently ranked near the bottom of stadium rankings. The design became outdated about a year after it opened. They did an admirable job in the early 2000s to improve the character of the park, but it's never going to be seen as anything but generic and forgettable to people outside the core fan based. And the economics of drawing people to the ballpark have indeed changed in recent years. Ballparks in entertainment deserts just aren't going to draw big crowds for most teams. That's why you see so many MLB parks adding entertainment districts if they aren't already located near other things to do.

Spot on summary. People can puff up their chests in Sox pride all they want and say the current park is "just fine to me," but what you are saying here is the cold, hard reality of how people outside of our fanbase view the current ballpark and its surroundings. Because of this, my guess is that the Ishbias are going to make a South Loop ballpark a reality after they assume control of the team after Jerry is gone. They didn't drop their Twins bid to buy a more expensive franchise only to continue on with a forgettable ballpark surrounded by acres of parking lots for the next 30-40 years. I suppose the other alternative would be for them to do massive renovations to the current park and determine that building a thriving entertainment district around the current site (one that can draw customers the 284 non-game days of the year) will work. Maybe....it's not impossible, but I have serious doubts about that.

On the subject of new stadiums, Washington DC and the Commanders have agreed to a new NFL stadium at the site of the old RFK Stadium. The city will be contributing $1.1B for the project, though part of that money is for developing the area around the stadium. https://apnews.com/article/washington-commanders-stadium-3bda9804a246219f28e9a2d2206bb492

Yes, I remember that with the Cubs. But was it the same for the Sox/Bulls/Hawks partnership with NBCSC where it was the teams that initiated the end of their partnership? Someone a few months ago suggested that Marquee and CHSN could merge, but that sounded like pure speculation as far as I know. https://awfulannouncing.com/local-networks/chicago-sports-network-marquee-merger-possible-comcast-dispute.html

Also, did each team opt to end their partnership with Comcast at the end of their previous contract? Or was that a mutual decision by all parties involved? If it was the former, to add to your point, why would Comcast be open to giving the 3 teams what they want now when they previously decided they'd rather cut Comcast out from the slice of their revenue pie? At any rate, the RSN is broken nationwide. It's not just a Jerry Reinsdorf thing even though he's painted himself into a corner by allowing his team to fall to a historically bad level of play just as their TV deal ended. Comcast wants to move the Cubs to their higher tier, too, and it is no longer motivated to pass along RSN fees to all customers (whether they want the sports networks or not) - even for the more popular bad guys on the North Side. MLB needs to figure out something to address the collapse of local TV revenue in many markets.

Even when the Cubs launched their own network, it was becoming clear that the RSN bubble was bursting and it wasn't exactly smooth sailing for the Marquee network even with the Cubs' huge fan base. JR and Wirtz should have anticipated the difficulties that lay ahead. Now, it's a perfect ****storm for the Sox/Bulls/Hawks to try to launch their own RSN and get carriers and individual subscribers to sign up. Carriers are no longer very motivated to pass along RSN fees to all their subscribers and all 3 teams are terrible. The Sox have been basically unwatchable for what is going on their 3rd straight season, with no end in sight. To make matters worse, Reinsdorf personally disliked Jason Bennetti and paved the way for him to leave for Detroit and then the Sox hired an incompetent clown to be the TV voice of the team. Forget about many fans paying $20/month or getting Comcast adding CHSN to their basic plan (thus passing along a big RSN fee to all customers). Even with the games being free on Ch. 62.2, I doubt most Chicagoland fans are wasting their time getting a $20 antenna to hear Schriffen to PBP for a 110+ loss team.

Be careful about saying "White Sox" and "78" in a pair of sentences. That might trigger some fans.

We've all wondered this. Here's my take: The main problems with JR is that he's insular, stubborn, loyal to yes-men, out of touch with how to succeed in MLB today, and penny wise-dollar foolish. For a long time, he's had a standoffish relationship with both the media and the fans. He bristles at criticism and IMO has just shut them out at this point. So, local media and fans raking over the coals over the state of the team doesn't mean much to him. Loyalty over demanding result has long been a criticism of him. That doesn't make him a bad person, but it's no way to run a MLB franchise. This is how people like TLR, Kenny Williams, Rick Hahn, Cooper had jobs way past their expiration dates. Approaches that led to success in 1983, 1990-93, and 2005 are outdated in the 2020s. It's not like he's never spent any money on the team. He did allow the payroll to balloon up to the top 5(?) or 10(?) during this recent failed rebuild. But he doesn't want to invest in things like player development, scouting, or difference-maker elite free agents. Locking up young talent to big extensions before they've proven anything in attempt to avoid handing out huge contracts has blown up in their faces over the last 5 years. He doesn't want to see the value of the franchise sink, but he thinks getting public funding for a new stadium will reverse that. Losing 121 games is embarrassing to him, but only further justifies (in his mind) his argument to the public that the White Sox cannot compete at their current stadium. And finally, owning the Sox is his life. He has clearly said so. For that reason, and for tax purposes, he's not selling while he's still in good health. So, we're stuck in baseball hell until Jerry's time is up. We can only hope that he is indeed lining up a transition plan to have the Ishbia brothers become the next controlling owners of the White Sox after he's gone.

I don't disagree that Rate Field would be ranked near the bottom of most, if not all, MLB ballpark rankings, but how is it "decaying"? Also, Tropicana Field is better than Rate Field? I don't know about that. IMO, Rate Field is a nice enough ballpark, especially the lower deck. But it's rather forgettable to anyone who is not a Sox fan (or perhaps even a Chicagoan who isn't a Sox fan, but doesn't blindly hate them). What makes it better than most other MLB ballparks that would warrant it being ranked anywhere out of the bottom 5? The neighborhood isn't bad, but it really doesn't offer much of anything to the fans other than ample parking and proximity to train stations. But many other MLB parks are near train stops, too.

You forgot to mention that the 78 is practically a Superfund site (based on past posts that I've read here).

Have all those suites ever even been totally filled? I want to say that at least about 10 years ago, there were some of those suites that were still empty. Also, I have read rumors that JR rejected an option to build a Camden Yards-style ballpark. But I have no idea if that's true or not. I agree with others that the lower deck, especially after the renovations that were made 20 years ago, is pretty nice. But it's still a "meh" park overall. We love it because we love the White Sox and it's our team's home. But, outside of our fanbase, it's a rather forgettable stadium in a rather forgettable neighborhood.

It was even worse when the upper deck went up to row 29 and there wasn't much of an overhanging roof! One of the problems w/ the UD is that the entrance from the concourse is at the very bottom. Other ballparks have nosebleed seats, but not many have you climb 21 rows to get to your seats.

There certainly isn't a shortage of articles that rank the MLB ballparks. Very subjective, of course, and we've seen countless rankings. That being said, here's a new one that ranks Rate Field at #27. The two minor league ballparks in use this year are ranked #29 and #30. Only Chase Field in Phoenix ranks lower that the home of the White Sox. I used to get all outraged when seeing Sox Park dissed and listed near the bottom in some of these rankings, but I really don't see anything they say here that strikes me as unfair. And yes, they are using the old name of this stadium: Guaranteed Rate Field. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25180779-ranking-all-30-mlb-stadiums-2025-season

I just read the Sun-Times article linked here. I agree with the general sentiment in your first sentence, but I didn't see anything that Crochet said in the article that was uncalled for or unprofessional. His response came off as pretty reasonable to me considering what you summed up nicely in your 2nd sentence. And unlike some other ex-players who have commented on the state of the Sox organization over the last few years, it's not like Crochet can be told to take a look in the mirror and acknowledge his own underperformance or poor clubhouse chemistry issues in contributing to this train wreck. I hope he goes on to have a fantastic career and does well except when he's facing the White Sox.

IMO, I've been locked out of watchable baseball from my favorite team for what is now the 3rd straight season. I'm not losing too much sleep over what 2027 might bring. That being said, it does look like a huge collision is coming after the end of next season.

Everyone repeat after me: The Sox are NOT MOVING TO ARLINGTON HEIGHTS. Outside of the first couple of seasons and after a WS title (if that ever happens again), they would never get close to averaging 30k a game over an 81 game home schedule (which is what it would take to reach 2.5M annual attendance) at a suburban location that is only convenient to those who live in or near the NW suburbs. I grew up in the NW suburbs and love the area, but it would be a total disaster for the franchise. Even if there's a decent # of Sox fans in the NW suburbs. No way it's even close to half the baseball fans out there. And people who live in the city or SW/South suburbs? You can forget about drawing them to more than a couple of games a year. That's writing off a huge chunk of their fan base. The next long term home for the Sox is either going to be at 35th and Shields or at the 78. Not AH, not Tinley Park, and not Nashville.

Agreed. This isn't shocking news to me - it's what JR has been saying all along. I never expected him to sell the team this year.....and even if he was, I never expected him to even hint that he was. To the latter part of your sentence, the only logical answer to me is that Ishbia must have secured a right of first refusal agreement from Reinsdorf when he dropped his Twins bid. Jerry is 89 and Isbhia is 47. He could very well have decided it's worth waiting a few years for the opportunity to own a MLB team in his hometown and in the 3rd largest market. But what if Jerry lives to be 102 like Virginia McCaskey! What if, what if.....not very likely even if Jerry is in relatively good health now. And note that he said he's not interested in selling as long as he's in good health, not until he's dead. Sadly, a lot of people experience a sharp (and often sudden) decline in health when they reach the 9 decade mark of life.