77 Hitmen

Good point. I suppose the term "retro park" is thrown around too loosely. Not every new ballpark going forward is going to be a time warp back to the 1920s, but since Camden Yards, most teams have tried to build in some unique character into their ballpark (some with better success than others) and/or the area around the ballpark. No one is building bland, generic-looking baseball-only stadiums surrounded not much but parking lots anymore. Interesting fact about all these post-Camden ballparks: many are now in the 25-30 year old range and while many are getting major renovations ($400M in renovations for Camden Yards!), no one is even hinting about getting rid of them. To put that amount of time into perspective, the old 70s era stadiums they replaced only lasted about 30 years before they became horribly obsolete and were torn down.

No. One of the few good off the field moves during the Reinsdorf era was to bring back the iconic "Old English" Sox logo and the current black pinstripes uniforms at the end of 1990. I see no reason to dispose of it when Ishbia takes over - none whatsoever. When I was growing up, the Sox went through a series of bad, sometimes laughable uniforms. First was those awful "old timey" uniforms of the Veeck era that made the Sox look like a joke team to me. Then we moved on to the Astros-wannabe ultra tacky uniforms of the early 80s that Jerry is still in love with. Then we ditched those and went to a super generic looking uniforms with an "Einhorn E" logo on the cap in the late 80s. The Sox kept bouncing from bad unis to bad unis every 5 years or so and that led to a lack of brand identity. Meanwhile, the Yankees, Dodgers, Cardinals, Cubs, Tigers, and many other teams had the same classic uniforms and logos year after year. Going back to the Old English Sox logo with black pinstripes was a total home run. And no, we shouldn't go back to the red pinstripes uniforms even if some Boomer fans still have fond memories of the Dick Allen era. Our team is not the "Red" Sox.

By the way, I did find a couple of sites that did league-wide MLB attendance rankings. The ESPN site only goes back to 2001. https://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/mlb_attendance/ Since 2001, the only time the Sox were higher that 15th in attendance was 2006 when they were 9th. They were also 14th in that weird 2021 season when they probably got a boost in ranking due to capacity restrictions. The best ranking ever at the new park was the inaugural season when they were #3. By 1994 (pre-strike), they were down to 11th (based on avg per game since teams didn't have an equal # of home games when the season was cancelled).

Yes, I don't remember the year, but that's what I remember happening. It wasn't just Stone, but his partner Chip Caray (Harry's grandson) who left after criticizing the Cubs. Caray does PBP for the Cardinals now. I can't imagine Stone going back to the Cubs.....or the Cubs wanting him back at age 78.

I don't know if any other teams have done this, but based on 35 years of attendance history since New Comiskey opened in 1991, I have no reason to believe the Sox can do this at the current stadium and it's current surroundings. Baseball Reference shows attendance ranking only among AL teams, not all of MLB. The Sox only finished better than 7th in the AL in 1991-94 (new stadium bounce/good teams) and 2006-2009 (post World Series bounce). They did rank 5th in the AL in 2021, but that's an odd year to make comparisons since there were Covid attendance restrictions in place around the league and that #5 was based on only 1.5M fans. The Sox hardly got any bounce in 2022 (8th out of 15) after winning 93 games and the division title the year before. https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/attend.shtml Maybe they'd shoot up to top 10 or even top 5 in all of MLB if they won multiple pennants or another WS title. Easier said than done. How many of those have the big market Yankees, Mets, and Cubs won in the last 15 years? Only 1 pennant each and only one WS titles between them. Or maybe they can draw better at the current stadium if they merely fielded competitive teams (without a WS title) AND developed the area around the current stadium to give fans things to do before/after the game.

That was a great ad campaign and great slogan.

This article from June includes a players survey on which organizations have good reputations and which ones have bad reputations. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6406636/2025/06/11/best-worst-mlb-manager-2025-player-poll/ Of the top 14 best ranked organizations, all but two are large market teams. The only exceptions to it otherwise being all big market teams are the Guardians and Rays. Among the bottom 16 teams, the only large market teams are the Angels and White Sox. And we all know that Reinsdorf has been running the Sox like they're a small market team for years now. The Nationals and Diamondbacks are in the lower half, but are basically neutral in this survey (one good vote for the D-Backs and one bad vote for the Nats). What struck me is how, with only a very few exceptions, this list splits out almost perfectly between big market and small market teams. Do people believe that nearly all the bad owners just happen to be in small markets while nearly all the good owners are in big markets with lots of revenue streams coming in? Of course there are a small handful of exceptions like how JR has run our favorite franchise into the ground, how the Angels are a mess, and how the Rays almost always overachieve. That doesn't mean I support a salary cap, though. This is the owners' problem, not a players' problem. But the competitive balance issue is real. Unfortunately, it seems like Manfred is intent on using a salary cap to fix their mess.

He now has 7 HRs since being called up. Nice 3-run blast today.

When did the Sox have the highest payroll?

Agreed. Since the subject of this thread is hope, the best we can hope for IMO is for the Sox to tread water and make themselves at least somewhat watchable for the next few years with some decent (albeit not enough) talent. The needle won't move dramatically until 1) Ishbia takes over, 2) he brings in competent people to run the team, 3) he starts spending on A-level free agents.... and 4) he hopefully moves the team to a new stadium at the 78. We know that first thing is going to happen, but not until 2029 at the earliest. From there I'm optimistic about 2 and 3 happening. That last one on my wish list isn't about baseball operations, but IMO that along with more winning teams would help the Sox compete financially with the rest of the league in the coming years.

Just out of curiosity, I looked up most expensive MLB contracts and Benintendi's ranks only 81st (tied with 5 other players) highest priced current contract. It's only under Jerry Reinsdorf that such a contract is considered the biggest one ever and we're conditioned to expect that he was brought in to be a superstar for us based on what the Sox shelled out for him. Even Pittsburgh has 2 players with more expensive contracts. Only the homeless A's have a lower highest paid contract ever. https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/player/_/year/2025/sort/contract_value

The one thing that is worse than anger or hatred of the team is total indifference. You're right, this is what's happening and it's concerning. That doesn't mean I want the Sox to make any short-sighted moves to "go for" a 90-loss season next year, but it'll definitely be a challenge to rebuild interest in this team once this franchise finally, someday gets itself truly turned around.

But who hires and keeps the people who have been terrible at picking which players to spend money on and also who hires people terrible at drafting and developing players? It all goes back to Jerry.

In other stadium news, it looks like the price tag for the new A's stadium in Vegas has soared to over $2B. Plus the 2nd article raises questions about whether the park will ever be completed. https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/fisher-says-cost-for-the-las-vegas-as-ballpark-has-risen-above-2-billion https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/jul/02/athletics-las-vegas-stadium-john-fisher-mlb-debacle

Maybe die-hard Cubs fans who will hate the Sox no matter what would say that, but otherwise I seriously doubt it. Retro parks are here to stay. Many of the most popular ones that were built are now over 20 to 30 years old and no one is even hinting about replacing them. They'll be here for at least another 20 or 30 years is my guess. The only retro-era parks that didn't last are Globe Life Park (because an open-air stadium was problematic in the intense Texas heat) and Turner Field (because the Braves wanted to build an entertainment district). The only other one I can think of that I'd call a flop is the Marlins stadium in Miami. Bland, generic ballparks that lack character aren't making a comeback. Now, if the Sox built a new retro style on the site of Old Comiskey AND they continued to surround the area with nothing but parking lots, then they'll be wasting their money IMO and they'll garner criticism and still have trouble drawing fans unless they're winning pennants every few years in perpetuity. And don't get me wrong, when I go to Sox games and sit in the lower deck, I find the place very enjoyable and don't go around thinking how much it sucks. But nonetheless, it's still seen as a boring, forgettable park by many, many people....and not just by jerk Cub fans who have it in for us.

Maybe the Sox hired a hypnotist to convince him that he's been traded to the Brewers?

Pope Leo gets Aurelio's pizza handed to him while greeting a crowd at the Vatican. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pope-gets-little-slice-home-vatican-city-special-delivery-chicago-pizz-rcna222205

In other sports facility news, the San Antonio Spurs are committing $1B toward a new downtown basketball arena and entertainment district. https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2025/07/25/san-antonio-spurs-outline-proposed-investment-details-for-downtown-arena/ If built, this would be their 3rd new stadium since 1993.

Chinatown residents express concern about the new Fire stadium at the 78: https://www.nbcchicago.com/chicago-sports-bears-sox-cubs-bulls-blackhawks/chinatown-residents-express-concerns-over-proposed-chicago-fire-stadium/3802086/ https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2025/07/30/chinatown-chicago-fire-stadium

People under age 40 probably cannot really appreciate how powerful and effective WGN's Cubs hype machine was from the early 80s until about the mid 90s. Like you said in another thread: Harry and WGN.

It's been a few years since I've been to Rate Field, but my experience has always been that the service at the concessions are sooooo slooooowwww! People shouldn't underestimate how much the entire gameday experience (including before and after the game) impacts how many people a team can get to show up. It's not just as simple as fielding a winning time while providing a mediocre experience at the ballpark anymore. Maybe that worked 30 years ago, but not today. The whole Petco experience for me felt like it was on an entirely different level than what I experience at Rate Field with the only downside is that my favorite team wasn't playing.

Bingo. Everyone in the organization above Southpaw should be worried about their jobs if he starts holding people accountable when he finally takes over. Too bad we have to wait until at least 2029 to find out if that'll happen.

The Padres are an interesting, perhaps unique, case. Metro area population is middle of the pack, but interesting that it's media market is bottom 3. As you said, they get big attendance numbers (3M/year since Covid). Even when they were mediocre in the years before Covid, they drew well. Yeah, great weather and beautiful ballpark at a great location must help. Any Sox fan who says Rate Field is "just fine" should go to a stadium like Petco Park. And yes, San Diego is the only city with a MLB team and no other teams from the other major sports leagues. It'd be like if Chicago had the White Sox, but no Cubs, Bears, Bulls, and Blackhawks.

I agree. I don't think we're that far off in our opinions. Bad ownership groups across the league are definitely a problem and Manfred just wants to go around trying to convince players that the salary cap cudgel will cure their problems.

To look at it another way, of the top 12 payroll teams, only the Braves and Diamondbacks are floundering. And for the Braves, this is after they've made the postseason 7 years in a row and the D-Back are only 2 years removed from winning the pennant. If you look at all the big market teams, the only ones who aren't making the playoffs on a regular basis are the White Sox and Angels. Perhaps the Cubs too over the last 4 years, but they seem to be back in playoff contention.