LDF

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 03:04 PM) I can see cases for most of those, but I personally don't see anything with Leury. Would rather use Sanchez in any role Leury would take. But I also think you're going overboard on the comps here. Thinking Davidson "has LaRoche's bat" is very ambitious for Davidson, you're not mentioning that Micah's defense is the question with him, and Trayce's value declines if you put him on the corner. i agree very much on the bold esp Micah defense.

i can see the sox selling on Shark, if the deal is there. but i don't see valuable player coming back. i don't see signing a FA, esp if it requires giving up a draft pick as comp. so, seriously....... how will the sox fix the holes???

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 02:45 PM) Now what will be interesting here is teams like Houston, the Cubs, Dodgers, etc are going to start seeing some roster crunches as all of this volume of signings starts to move through there systems. Where the White Sox excel is by identifying guys who fall through the cracks, and then grabbing them for pennies on the dollar. yea a good point, but i see those teams keeping the really good players and give up on the others.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) The Yankees were/are just getting old, almost all their everyday position players. They had no choice but to bring in fresh blood. With the Cubs, it's more about that philosophy and the "niche exploitation" of the rules...they have PLENTY of position prospects (and added Eloy Jimenez, the #1 guy) simply because they want to build up enough talent/surplus they can use all of them to fix gaps in the pitching staff at the major league level. They will strike again in July/August simply because they're in a good position for the wild card and they have that surplus to trade from. And maybe the "insider knowledge" of impending rules changes, and the fact that now's as good a time as any to overspend in one particular year if they have the connections with those players and their agents...or the Red Sox with Rusney Castillo and Moncada. Same thing with the Dodgers, it's just a numbers game with guys like Puig, Guerrero, Arruebarruena and Hector Olivera. Throw enough talent and dollars at a problem, eventually the law of averages dictates some of it will stick. and think about it and substitute the Sox in that scenario. the sox can rebuild the system. this is or will be the best the system has been since the 90's. can you really imagine, the sox has a viable surplus of minor leaguers that will feed the parent club? what can't the sox upper management understand with this reasoning???

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 04:37 AM) I am pretty far for being a professional scout, like light years away, not even close. Its an insult to the real guys to call me that but lets get back to your post....... What's creative about overspending? Its not about how much cash you drop ,its about development. And just because a guy is getting a big bonus, dosent mean he's (or she's) a good player. Teams like the Cubs are willing to overspend on guys like Ademan, because they want to make sure that they get him into their system. They already committed to going over the penalty line, so whats the point of being conversative when your goal is to sign as many players as possible. Look at the Yankees last year, they signed lots of guys to deals over $1M, not because they valued x player at that way based on talent but because they wanted to guarantee that he would be wearing pinstripes. And not most of the smarter orgs are doing this, its the guys with the big wallets. Its the Cubs, its the Yankees, its the Dodgers, etc., not everybody is afforded this luxury. And if you ask me, it shouldn't even be a possibility. I'm sure the team would love to go way overslot and spend like $30M like the Yankees, but it's not realistic for them. So please calm down and relax. x Zinger you are slightly wrong on this. the yanks and the sCrubs over spent b/c they had a big hole in the systems of not having bodies to develop. the yanks even said that several times before the draft. i am saying to over spend, b/c of the same excuse that has been used, b/c of lack of bodies, bodies that may develop in 4+yrs. to help the future of the org.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 01:03 PM) I would hope so, he's a TOP FIVE WAR LHP for the entire major leagues since 2012, ahead of even Bumgarner and Lester. The absolute decrepitude of our defense is making him look like an "average" pitcher, and our offense's lack of run support is making it nearly impossible for him to get some quality wins and build back his confidence to 2012-14 levels. Now every GM knows this, but they are what's depressing his value a bit. imho, i think the value of Shark is still high. but other teams will play hard ball to low ball the sox in any trade.

i am posting this from another thread that was closed. and it was silly to have lost the game that way. he should have gotten the pen up and warming up, who cares what the pitch count was, sometimes the pitcher needed to come out and a rp in sooner. the object is to win the game. thinking otherwise is silly.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 01:22 PM) To go back to that point, why do teams like the Cardinals, Rays and Rangers always have multiple minor league options to fill in for major league injuries....whereas we've had no major injuries during the season, yet still aren't even close to having the ability to fill in most of the gaps in the 25 man roster from Charlotte and Birmingham. the miscalculation done from the owners on down. assuming players are ready to play mlb when they are not. assuming the starting rotation as is, will be good enuf, obviously in Hector. assuming the cat / 3b / others will be ok assuming the bench will not be needed as much as it is. assuming that they did enuf to win.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 02:04 PM) There is one overriding constant to being a really good coach though: they all have/had really good players. i disagree, they need to players to believe in what the coach, managers is preaching.

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 06:58 AM) The Cardinals have massive injuries and a host of nobodys filling their lineup - yet they win. On paper our starting pitching looks superior. Talent does matter but just thinking its all talent is no more enlightened then blaming it all on Robin. how many games can be blamed on RV miscalculations??? yesterday game is proof, Jeff should have been removed.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 06:54 AM) Stop with the bulls*** reasons to fire RV, there's only one reason to fire him and that's because you can't fire 25 players. If he was making one ridiculous substitution after another, or running into outs with his stupid calls from the dugout or if guys were constantly out of position on defense then yes, by all means, the manager is leading to losses. But these guys are playing like horseshiit and that's why they're losing and that's why we want the manager fired. He's the boss. He's as close as we can get to firing some or all of the players. Motivation my ass. If you need to get motivated to play professional sports you're in the wrong career. And ask yourself something: would Gillaspie, Flowers, Sanchez and Ramirez be STARTING on a winning team right now? Not likely. That's about half your lineup. I'd throw LaRoche in there if he hadn't finally started to heat up. And you might wonder whether or not Avi would be starting in RF on a winning team. Fire Robin, don't fire Robin, who gives a s***. All it is is red meat to the fans and a complete "Who, me?" by management. How about firing Buddy Bell who has nothing down in the minors that's developed into MLB talent that can help right now? That'd be a nice start. And I'd take a long look at Doug Laumann too. Over 2 decades heading up scouting for the White Sox. Like what you see? that is the main point for me at least. sox management should start trying to fix it now. but they won't they will wait the season out. if they did it now, who knows, maybe they will save some creditability and the season tickets, let alone individual tickets sales will not get that affected.

QUOTE (harkness @ Jun 29, 2015 -> 06:46 AM) I certainly don't blame Robin for all of it... I love the guy's personality. But coaching and winning is a fickle beast.. Robin just doesn't have "It". It's a different thing for different people but you either win or you don't. Robin will be gone sooner or later and out of coaching most likely. I don't really blame him however... they pretty much forced him to do this and now he cares and doesn't want to fail. They really messed it up and now Robin doesn't want it to be on him. i agree and that is the additional b/s that will come out of this. RV is going to get a black eye from this, whether he deserves it or not.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 11:00 PM) Well, then isn't it on the GM to find the RIGHT players who are internally-motivated, knowing their manager isn't exactly noted in this regard? It seems the rest of the season, we'll be going round and round in circles between the players, manager, coaching staff, Hahn, KW and Reinsdorf (organizational culture/loyalty) assessing blame. Should get old fast, since we've already spent the first half of the season on that same discussion and argument. and while that is true, there are some trace of doubt as to who is to be blame.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 10:43 PM) Hopefully the object is to showcase Shark and get his value up. you do have a point. but under the circumstances, RV still could have pull him on top of the 7 when the score was a great reflection of what Jeff can do. so as it is, he has 3 extra earn runs added to his yrly stats.

QUOTE (WKamm @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 10:53 PM) I'm sick of hearing how RV is not a good motivator. These are professional athletes who got to where they are by being motivated. They don't need someone else to motivate them. motivation or not, players are not going to perform when they have no faith in the coach. they, the players need a person who can coach, can managed a team.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 10:12 PM) Peavy pushed him around too. Just not a leader. Please follow Ryno's lead. RV, and let's just agree that it didn't work out. just like Sale did last yr. for those who want to say, this is but 1 game. this is the problem that has been finally magnified for all to see.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 08:48 PM) In Ventura's defense, it's really difficult to have confidence in the pen lately. It's starting to look like last year. it doesn't matter, RV is the boss, he should have had the pen warming up in the 6 and bring in a rp in the 7. the #1 pitcher or even the #2 sp of any rotation, needs to have a rp / cl come in.... better yet, how many pitchers fully pitched a complete game??? those kind of complete games is from another era. i remember when it was understood, at a certain inning, a rp will be coming in.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 09:16 PM) An important note here though is that when you're signing 15-16 year old latin american kids, it could be a decade before they hit the big leagues and they'd still be pretty young. The new setup started in the 2013 signing season right? Even if we did everything right, it could be 4-5 years before we start really seeing anything out of that setup from the first couple years. Regardless of whether or not we're able to develop these players, that's got to be kept in mind for evaluating the White Sox and the international signing work. and in this way of someone explaining a point that i have been trying to for the last several months. man it is much easier to read it this way, instead of my script. let me also say it this way, at least 4 yrs before the org gets to see anything positive from a venture of overspending on a particular yr of over spending. the team goes thru several yrs of additional players movement, with the understanding that the strongest unknown group of prospects are in some way, uncounted. at the time, either the parent team has won and continue to win some penchants or will be in the running to do so when the group of extra prospects will ready to make a name for themselves. btw, of that, hopefully a couple of those prospects will really develop. this will be an exciting time, when all plays out. that is if they can see it.

i will continue to say this. with all the owner's insipid, amateurish and inept meddling, this team will not get better.

this is starting to, for me, is the reason why RV needs to go. why wasn't the pen being active at the 6 inning or the start of the 7. take out Jeff earlier. who is the manager, who cares if Jeff didn't want to come out.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 08:26 PM) Well the Tigers, Angels, and Orioles don't have a whole lot of interesting pieces, so I'd count them out. A lot of interesting options from the other teams though. on team that have interesting pieces that can entice or work with the sox needs. Yanks, Hou, and Dodgers. the best one is not a contending team = Col. interesting team that needs the most is Tor. they need a sp and rp/cl.

an fyi.... the sox really don't have a history of trading with Balt, Miami, and i believe Tpa. this is beside trading within AL central. so within these exceptions, what teams will be a possible trading partner for the sox.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 07:45 PM) My horrible plan. Prior to July 31: Trade Jeff Samardzija to Toronto for Miguel Castro and Anthony Alford. Rationale: No point in keeping Samardzija. Castro is a big time arm coming out of the bullpen. Tops out at 99 sits 95-97. Lanky and has the delivery to cause for concern so he'll likely be undervalued by the Jays. His inclusion is to add to the bullpen depth and make Sox own assets more valued in the market (Montas). Alford is the real get for me. I think he will be a top 100 prospect in time (unless the Sox trade for him course). Great idea of the strike zone despite being incredibly raw. He was an over slot signing as he had to be swayed away from playing college football, i.e. KW will love him. Should grow into some power but likely possesses every tool but it. He would immediately be a top five prospect in our system. Free Agency Sign 3B Juan Uribe - 1 year, 7 million. Rationale: Great defender with varying offensive display. Good for the clubhouse. Should make a strong impact as we go from one of the worst defenders to one of the better defenders. Sign SP Matt Latos - 2 year, 28 million. Rationale Buy low candidate. Very ugly ERA based on an unsustainable strand rate. Despite what Balta will say over and over again, there is some money to spend and the Sox are better making their bigger expenditures on pitchers given their success rate there. Could fathomably produce what Samardzija would at third of the cost and a fraction of the risk. Stats really suffered because of lack of velocity in the beginning of they year which he has since improved on. Still young at 27. Sign Asdrubal Cabrera - 1 year, 3 million Rationale: Provides depth from both sides of the plate at every infield position. I wouldn't want him to end up at SS but he makes for a nice insurance plan to the 2B platoon and Uribe at 3B. He will be relegated to a bench role somewhere and I wouldn't mind it being the Sox. Trades: Trade Jose Quintana to Boston for C Christian Vasquez, 3B Rafael Devers, LHP Edwin Escobar and SS Deven Marrero Rationale: Find a potential long term catcher who is stud behind the plate, a prospect with considerable offensive potential, buy low on lefty reliever with talent and get a shortstop with great defense. I do expect the Sox and Boston to match up this winter and I like the idea of taking depth over putting all the eggs in one or two baskets. It sucks to lose Q but you have to give to get. Trade Frank Montas and Courtney Hawkins for RF Jay Bruce Rationale: Montas is likely to have much more value on the open market than Danish and the Sox will need to pull from their pitching depth to bring in some sort of talent. Jay is a good defender and hits for power from the left side. Hawkins has no MLB future in my mind, at least in this organization, so you might as well salvage any value his pedigree still carries. vs. RHP L CF Eaton L 2B Johnson R 1B Abreu L RF Bruce L DH LaRoche R 3B Uribe S LF M. Cabrera/Garcia R C Vasquez R SS Marrero vs. LHP L CF Eaton S 2B A. Cabrera R 1B Abreu L RF Bruce R DH Garcia/LaRoche R 3B Uribe S LF M. Cabrera R C Vasquez R SS Marrero Bench: Flowers (going by likelihood, not by preference), INF A. Carbera, Garcia/LaRoche, Sanchez/Trayce Thompson SP 1 Chris Sale SP 2 Carlos Rodon SP 3 Mat Latos SP 4 John Danks (again, likelihood, not preference) SP 5 Erik Johnson CL David Robertson SU Nate Jones RHP Daniel Webb RHP Miguel Castro LHP Edwin Escobar LHP Zach Duke RHP Jake Petricka Top Prospects: 1.) RHP Carson Fulmer - Birmingham 2.) SS Tim Anderson - Charlotte 3.) 3B Rafael Devers - Winston Salem 4.) SS Deven Marrero - Chicago 5.) OF Anthony Alford - Winston Salem 6.) OF Micker Adolfo - Kannapolis 7.) 3B Trey Michalczewski - Birmingham 8.) RHP Spencer Adams - Winston Salem 9.) RHP Tyler Danish - Charlotte 10.) LHP Edwin Escobar - Chicago They're not playoff ready for 2016, but they get younger and fill the system with a team that could compete if a few things go their way. Keys are depth, risk aversion and defense. Plus defenders at C, SS, 3B, CF and RF. If things go south you have trade chips in Bruce, Latos, LaRoche and Uribe. a very interesting post and i can see the hard work..... many thanks for posting this.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 07:43 PM) I am sure messageboard posters on a Chicago White Sox board have no idea how the team has fared over the last few years. It's great that we have Balta to remind us every few posts. whether you are like many are upset about the subject of incompetence in the sox org, starting with the permission from the owners. it reminds me of this plan of accepting less than what can be describe as acceptance of failure. these changes need to be brought up, to yell it from every sports forum. maybe just maybe others will fully accept the fans displeasure and just maybe the owners will do something then. of course, the owners will care about their money coming in. max the profit margin. my question is why isn't other posters not voicing their displeasure as well?? are many posters willing to embrace the so called of help is coming??

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 28, 2015 -> 05:28 PM) Wow, you are a comedian on top of being a professional scout and screenwriter. How did you come up with that "mic drop" zinger? Such a creative and original rip, wouldn't expect anything less from a dude as talented as yourself. Let me say I disagree with almost your entire post. Already said the ranking are pretty meaningless, so I guess we agree on one thing (even though you ignored that point). And a $1.5M bonus is nice, but nowhere near the value it was back when we signed Micker. So perhaps this guy isn't the 30th ranked player, he's still not a top 10 prospect if you go by projected bonus size. Regardless, there are a bunch teams grabbing multiple guys in or above this bonus range. Despite our overall budget, we are getting less of the high-end talent than our competition. You talk about spreading our money to multiple guys, but a lot of teams are doing the same thing but to a much greater extent by simply spending more. And I understand the differences between the draft and international free agency. Your essentially buying a bunch of lottery tickets and the goal is to buy as many as possible to increase your odds of hitting on a couple. That's exactly why you blow past your cap, sign as many as possible, and then endure your penalties for a year or two. You can still sign lower-end talent during that time. If done correctly, you can ultimately add more talent over the course of three years through this method than by staying within your cap limits. There is a reason why most of the smarter organizations are taking advantage of this loophole. And this doesn't account for the fact that an international draft is looming and these penalties may ultimately be meaningless in year or two. Once again, we are behind our competition on a popular loophole. First was with the draft and refusing to go overslot despite there being no penalties, most likely due to Reinsdorf's ethics and loyalty to Bud Selig. Now we're seeing it with a refusal to go above our international cap limit. I hope Hahn proves me wrong and goes out and gets a Eddy Martinez type, because our competition is finding creative ways to infuse talent into their systems and we are not. excellent through post. i disagree with the bolded. you and many think it is ethics etc... i think it is for an excuse not to spend money. with limits establish, all the owners of the sox has to do is point to the limit and say, we are following the rules. in other words not spending money that they don't have too.