LDF

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 05:34 AM) Hawks traded D Adam Clendening to the Vancouver Canucks for D Gustav Forsling I think this is an age swap. Clendening is ready now but can't crack the Hawks roster because its so deep. Forsling is only 18 and playing in Sweden. He had 8 points in 5 games at the WJC. Shoots left too. wow this surprise me, i really liked Clendening as a player and his potential. the hawks have some players coming up with their contracts ending. ~~~ edit. - what is i am starting to realize, maybe it is me and the whole scotty bowman, the father, preference for european players. that i think scotty junior thinks the same way.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 01:05 PM) I blame Gar Foreman. By all accounts the Bulls are ready to hand it off to Fred Hoiberg because him and Gar are boys. The last time the Bulls replaced their head coach with a Iowa State head coach, it was not pleasant. Sorry heads if this is the case, i would let Foreman go. Thib is too good of a coach to let go. 2nd, it does hurt, when some key players are not playing as they should or how they have played in the past.

QUOTE (Leonard Zelig @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 07:34 AM) Well I asked because James Shields' career ERA is 3.72 and you said he is a bad pitcher. ahhh you got to take what he said with a grain of salt and a little tequila .... he likes to piss in people cheerios.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 03:24 AM) Reminds me a little of the Josh Johnson situation coming into 2014. Or Beachy and Kris Medlen this year. The problem is that the White Sox are in a vastly different position heading into Spring Training. They can't afford to "experiment" with rehabbing Billingsley in the major league rotation. If it's a situation like last year with Tommie Hanson in Charlotte, sure, why not? Nothing to lose. But you wouldn't want him to be in the starting rotation pitching every 5 days in April and May. That wouldn't be fair to Billingsley, the fans or the team, to put him in that position. FWIW, the Royals are HOPING that Medlen can make an impact in replacing Shields this season. Ken Rosenthal reports the Royals have signed right-handed pitcher Kris Medlen to a two-year deal worth $8.5 million with a $10 million mutual option for 2017. Of course, $8.5 million for a pitcher who won't come back until mid-season is a HUGE risk for KC. They already went 2 years and $20 million on Edinson Volquez, so basically they're betting those two COMBINED will outperform Shields in 2015. http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-colum...cle8162523.html Article on unlikelihood of Shields going back to KC, complete silence from his agent. extremely good logic.... but a question why could they start him in the minors to stretch the arm out and get some innings in.

80% if all things being equal and the team stays healthy.... 95% if the sox got another sp. 0% i wanted the protected draft pick. say as above.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 12:32 AM) You're seriously equating 1.5MM with 20MM? huh. then you tell me why they didn't do it, and if you know the answer then why ask the question. anyway, it was the FO that said, that the sox don't have the money and are on a budget. they also said that they went over the budget...... so i was just simply replying with the same words the sox FO said.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 12:22 AM) My real question is why we didn't sign Chad Billingsley for 1.5 MM like the Phillies just did. b/c the sox do not have the money and they spent their budget.

QUOTE (WBWSF @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 12:09 AM) Who would you want pitching on the White Sox, Shields, Danks or Noesi? If the White Sox are serious about contending in 2015 Shields is a no brainer. The White Sox will not make the 2015 Playoffs with a bottom of the rotation of Noesi and Danks. the sox needs pitching, we can't be choosy in pitching. but this whole thing is moot. remember... the sox do not have the money nor have the budget for this.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 12:07 AM) What? How did you possibly come to that conclusion from his post? The whole point of this thread, and his response in summary, is that the team has reached a point where it can AFFORD to make some moves with prospects and still be left with a middle-of-the-pack system. The key to maintaining that is moderation -- realizing that the cost of going ALL IN is too high and return too little in the current MLB environment, and that a balanced approach to remaining competitive without ebing the best team in the league allows you to also maintain a decent farm which leads to sustained competitiveness. What you just said I agree with is exactly the opposite of what I agree with. no offense, but this was nice reading.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 30, 2015 -> 12:06 AM) What they really need to do is come up with the Standard Error of Measure based on how far off they've been over the last decade or so. That would give them enough data to predict how far off they are likely to be. ahhh what did you say....

as everyone knows on this site, i am a huge Robin Ventura backer, i trust him to do a great job in coaching, esp with his assistants. this team has the possibility of surprising alot of so call experts.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 11:59 PM) Yes. You are presenting Shields as a insurance policy in case the top three need a breather. Shields paycheck (theoretical paycheck) is probably going to be somewhere between 14 and 20 mil. No I don't think he will get 20 mil per, but you never know. Why would you want to pay someone that kind of money just to give your top three a breather late in the season? That just doesn't make sense thanks for correcting my confusion. shield paycheck is the unknown. i will admit that. but i think without giving up prospects. so let me ask this, if shields can bridge as the example i stated, what would you be willing to pay to get to that position where we are in the playoff with a chance to go further. remember 1 thing, they had shields pitching in what part of the rotation??? can you imagine pitching him #4 or 5 and have better coaching control of the situation???

b/c you have good posters writing and not swearing or crazy stuff like that,

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 11:38 PM) The money needed for this insurance policy is just not worth it. I would rather the insurance policy be Rodon or Montas if Noesi/Danks fail let me ask you, are we still talking about shields??? i am kind of lose here.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 11:42 PM) It depends. If I were in the Twins or Phillies position right now, not at all. If I were fairly close to being a competitive team, and the prospects weren't special by any stretch of the imagination, I'd probably do it most of the time, but I'd evaluate each on a case by case basis. The Sox also got a prospect out of it too. We can't simply forget about Ynoa. you have a great point and i wish i had the ability to have said this long time ago. one can not arbitrarily use the same parameters on all trades. it need good management control to assess it and act according.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 11:32 PM) So you agree that trading 4 players for 1 year rentals is a good idea? It's going to cost a great deal of money to keep them or continually losing 4 players from the minor league depth will eventually wear it down. it was a cost that needed to be paid while not damaging the system. good management.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 11:31 PM) Again, you just presented a scenario where Shields is needed in a 5 game series presuming that the top 3 pitchers can't pitch. You really think this hypothetical is worth throwing a terrible contract at Shields? a very good point, but let think of it this way. his value is to help get the team there, give ample rest to the 3 top sp's bridge the season while helping prepare the team for the playoff. this team as built, can do alot of special things come playoff. but the team needs to get there and healthy.

QUOTE (shipps @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 11:15 PM) So Hahn is going to pay a guy like Shields 100 mil going under the assumed hypothetical situation that none of our top 3 will be able to pitch in a deciding WC game? i never said 100 for 4 or more yrs, and i am not a fan of shields. but with nothing out there, and again not for 4 or more yrs, yes. the sox screw this up when they had a chance to do more, in the beginning of the fa season.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 10:45 PM) Um... the wild card series is 1 game. And the Giants just won the WS with 3 pitchers ok you got me, i was typing to fast, i meant the sox made it in as a wild card. during a playoff series. can you envision, come wild card series, Sale has pitched 200 innings as well as Q and Jeff S. you going to need to run out a pitcher for a tie game. Rodon has pitched 150 + innings.... up next, Beck, Erik Johnson, Hector. btw, last yr is one thing, we are talking about a all different situation.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 11:40 PM) Shields is heavily overrated and not WORTH the money. Why do you want us to take on another bad contract? We've already got Danks. i agree with you, but considering he is the last somewhat good sp, he is the only option..... but not more than 3 yrs. can you envision, come wild card series, Sale has pitched 200 innings as well as Q and Jeff S. you going to need to run out a pitcher for a tie game. Rodon has pitched 150 + innings.... up next, Beck, Erik Johnson, Hector.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 11:30 PM) He wants $20 mill a year for c. 5 years. He had a bad post season. 2 of his last 3 seasons have been nothing special. 4 of our top 6 prospects are pitchers. but none ready to carry a heavy workload let alone pitch extremely well in a playoff hunt.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 11:19 PM) You're right, bullpen is important in the playoffs, but you are not looking at this in context. Many say that this team is built better for the playoffs because our top 3 is among the best in the league. But come playoff time, are we really comfortable saying we have an edge in our starting pitching if Q can only go 4 or 5 innings for us and we have to rely on a shaky bullpen to hold down the fort? If you're the Royals, sure, if you're the White Sox, no. That, along with no playoff experience, and Sale's second half fatigue really poke a lot of holes in the claim that "we are built for the playoffs". exactly and they cannot in all reality expect a rookie to pitch what will be a heavy workload and not feel fatigue. the sox need another pitcher (horse) to bridge all that.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 09:22 PM) They don't mean *nothing* or they wouldn't exist. And BP wouldn't have the reputation it does. The reason White Sox fans feel like you do, is because the Sox consistently over perform their PECOTA, but the reason for that is Cooper and Schneider. We've had the least DL days in baseball for the last 15 years. That's what allows us to outperform the projections. Other teams don't have that. let me ask this question, why do you think that has happen. luck?? is the sox doing something better than the rest of the league. i just find that stat as very promising but unnerving, odd would appear to eventually catch up.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 06:55 PM) The other thing to mention here is that if you are of the belief that the Sox have more money to spend, or should be sending prospects to trade for players to finish out the 25 man roster, it isn't all black or white. If the Sox leave themselves a scenario where they don't spend all of their resources, that now allows them to evaluate the team through April and May, identify what they believe will help the team the most, and then still have the flexibility to identify a player in another organization who can help them down the stretch. Part of baseball is the unknown happens a lot. It isn't a crazy scenario to envision at least one of the guys the Sox are counting on being a bust this year. Heck it is probably a likely scenario that at least one guy who is an assumption now, will bust. There is also a decent chance that someone comes out of no where to fill a hole shock on the team. If the teams blows all of its resources now, they won't maintain the flexibility to fix problems later. you are sooo right in this, that is why none of us work for the baseball org. but i would Hahn to have more of a knowledge than us. now it only to convince the owners to let him spend just a little more, now it is pointless, unless it is the trade rt.

QUOTE (gatnom @ Jan 29, 2015 -> 07:37 PM) Gambling with veterans is more often successful, but when it's unsuccessful it's a massive blow. Which is where my second point comes in. It's not about hoarding prospects or hoarding high priced veterans. It's about being able to trade 4 prospects away for a Jeff Samardzija, and still have a farm system that's got some talent in it. If some of our signings bust from this offseason, we aren't necessarily screwed for the next few years like we were last time. it wouldn't had to be, if the sox didn't get the gift of some very surprising players. now they have to fast track the rebuilding schedule b/c of that..... and of course, the fans were not comiing out.