LDF

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:41 PM) Yeah I don't want to give up anything of value for Blackmon or Dickerson. Idk I guess it depends. i don't know about the Col players, i have not been that impress..... i like the Jackson move or trade. pretty much as i posted yesterday as a salary dump from another team and a pickup for the sox. it the sox do decide to add pieces, i would be very surprise and then i would like to see who?? thinking from yesterday, i am getting sold on Desmond at SS and sacrificing that pick. i can see how it can help in many ways.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:15 PM) QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:28 PM) SoxFest will be entertaining to say the least I would expect a few things are done before SoxFest. I just can't believe they want to go there with this bad taste in everyone's mouth. I may be wrong but I hope the next week will be interesting and a few positive additions are made. if nothing else is done... and the team stands pat, the sox FO will have their game plan set and will be prepared for those kind of questions .... they will be ready, believe you me, they will be prepared, esp appealing to the cost of the FA's..... the main counter, for me would be go at them with their suppose budget and never increasing it and all those lost opportunities.. in the 90's and poor management selections of the GM and drafting. do not make it personal and stick to a prepared and well thought of game plan.... do not loose your composure and smile.... condescendingly do it like you would be in court.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) Yeah.... It's a broken down train that nobody would have ridden even a month ago, but now that it's leaving the station with no other options we're forced to jump aboard Really, it's pathetic what we've resigned ourselves to as fans. i really hate to say this, but we as fans has been condition for this kind of expectation. but again, i can see a 1 yr at 27.5 mil for a salary.... but it is hard to swallow. but, the sox would have been a very formidable team to deal with.... and again, but the sox still need another hole or 2 to fix, but the owners do have that money to use...... as you can see i am flopping around as a fish out of the water.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 06:09 AM) For me, I would have been pissed if a team signed him for something like 3/65. However, I'm at peace with what he got and Sox not offering. All the best to the Mets in the NL all i am going to say it they better kick the shiiiite out of the norhtside.

QUOTE (lord chas @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 06:06 AM) That is just crazy insane money. Further illustrates the need to draft better it is getting there, they just really need to blow the int't draft away and go over.... get as many prospects the team can. then let their development sort them out.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 06:02 AM) 27.5 pretty much has to assure everyone that he opts out (cause the remaining money on that deal would be way less than a deal a year from now...unless he is hurt or totally tanks). That is a real hefty price to pay for 1 year (that said I don't blame the Mets). Clearly Cespedes wanted to stay in New York and leveraged everyone else and unless someone offered him a legit longer term deal with a lot of guaranteed money, he was going to go to the Mets. Now things are finally going to get interesting. Lets see how the Sox pivot. Maybe Desmond and Jackson or Desmond and a trade. i think some sports writer said in another thread, the sox FO stated they will not go after any one that will cost a draft pick. i hope i got it right.

i am going to keep this as neutral as possible, esp my rants in the past of not giving the sox the benefit of the doubt. so that first yr alone of 27.5 tells it right there. that is too much in my book for him. however, the opt clause and the rest of the propose money being split for the other 2 yrs, that is if he does not opt out, i can reason with it. i may have felt within reason that the sox could have beaten it. i still think getting him for even the possibility of making the playoff next yr would have been worth the cost. however that is 27+ mil.... if they do pursue improving the team... they can get 2 players for the price of cespy. i am wondering what their next move will be, if any.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 04:22 AM) We started buying and we didn't finish. It's that simple. Losing a pick for a mediocre Dexter Fowler won't complete that. Austin Jackson won't either. Giving up more assets to acquire a washed-up outfielder won't either. Knowing Reinsdorf, we'll announce the signing of Austin Jackson in a few days. Lose out on LeBron, sign Carlos Boozer. nah man, you got the owners all wrong..... it is all about the $$$$$

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 04:19 AM) On the bright side, Quintana's ERA just dropped half a point look on the bright side from the owner pov..... the team salary is still around 115 mil.....

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 04:12 AM) I thought they were going to have a chance about 30'secomds before Rosenthals tweet. I have said all along I didn't think the sox will do it. but I sure hope to the baseball demigods that the sox do finish the job. a cf and a sp. for the price of 1 cespy. but 3 yrs..... this should tell a lot of the current state of the sox FO.

did many really think the sox will pull this off???? now I would like to see if they get anyone else.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jan 23, 2016 -> 02:04 AM) Hello welcome. One thing you'll notice about me, well , maybe not , no one else has, is that when it comes to minor leaguers I do not try to predict the future. I only hope for the very best for them and look at the high side. After all I am a Sox fan . No sense for my personal well being dwelling on the down side of youngsters. You on the other hand used an absolute like NEVER which I cannot accept. You may end up being right or wrong but NEVER doesn't work for me because things change with young people because they learn and grow. Maybe Semien doesn't play SS for the Sox , maybe he plays 2nd base , maybe he DH's maybe 3rd base. If the guy was truly terrible at SS how does he end up being given such a high ranking by the MLB network analysis that takes into account every facet of his game with high end statistics ? you and i have had our problems even till the other day. BUT..... i will acknowledge when i read a great post. good one.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:42 PM) Ok, gotta ask: What / who the hell is that in your avatar??? dang, some music group, the main singer is making movies now, good actor. he was in Be Cool movie i think. i may be wrong.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:18 PM) If JR's plan is to sell the team in a few years, it would be a colossal mistake to have the team tank and minimize the payroll. I asked about this on the board the other day, and it seems like with a new TV deal coming up, having rock bottom ratings would hurt how valuable the franchise is more than having 20-30 million more in payroll. as i said, this is some crazy notions that somehow seep-into my conscience thought process. believe you me, i really was extremely hesitant i mentioning it until i worked out the angles. even then it still bother me. but not to minimize payroll, but to minimize huge contracts that will saddle whomever the new owners may be and to lessen the overhead.... but i do not think the sox will want to tank, b/c the owners will still want that WS ring. btw the tv deal is with the secondary company JR owns but the contract is the sox corp.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 08:50 PM) Always enjoy the rock solid analysis in your posts, but seems to me that we're circling around the same point and might not be in disagreement at all. I'm in no way suggesting that "our" preferred terms includes three years for anyone, no matter what. We can all quibble about the baseball pros and cons of the talent targeted by RH and the Sox (and I think we've been less than adequate overall in targeting the right people), but it strikes me as silly to think that RH and company lack the intelligence to do his full-time job in a professional manner. Hahn is a Harvard educated attorney; listen to him for a minute and you realize he's a very bright individual. Despite the goofiness of media blurbs, does anyone think for a moment that the Sox would actually have a "three or no deal" policy, no matter what? You're right, if that were "our" policy, we'd be entirely out of synch with the rest of baseball. Instead, and what I was suggesting, was "we" value specific targets in specific ways. Stated differently, there might be "nice to haves" and then "must haves." It's perfectly reasonable to assume that in the opinion of those whose opinions matter for the organization (management -- not the fans and certainly not the media), management determined Cespedes to be a "nice to have." Get him on our terms and we'll take the known risks (obviously with the considerable upside potential too); however, no taking unnecessary risks (outside of our terms), no chasing. On a personal level, I think that getting any one of the big-three (not relevant now, but I preferred Gordon's skill set overall for this team, although I think Gordon was never truly on the market at all) actually a "must have" and the calculus changes to something dramatically different than the calculus for the nice to haves. Everyone can have their opinion, of course, but no way do the Sox have some rigid "three years or bust" policy. In fact, I'm convinced knowing their past, knowing the creativity of the management team, and knowing the near inside info I was told, they presented a three year deal with a host of asterisks -- an opt out and option years. That's what THEY thought Cespedes was worth. It doesn't matter that WE might have disagreed or done differently if we were holding down their jobs. Finally, the Sox did what it took to reel in Adam Dunn with a four year deal -- Dunn's best deal on that market. They considered him and his left-handed boom or bust approach a must have at the time (somehow I wasn't around when they called to ask my opinion, so they missed me telling them that I've always hated that style of slugger). Just last year, they bested the market and gave David Robertson a four year deal because they considered getting that "lock-down closer" a must have. They'll do what it takes when a guy achieves that "must have" status, but they'll let the "nice to haves" go if the price exceeds their internal assessment of value. That's a sound way to run any business that isn't simply a play-toy of a wealthy billionaire owner. I think a lot of the angst going on in this thread is simply some Sox fans valuing Cespedes more than Sox management does. Now, continually making the wrong choices is a good way for management to lose their job, but sticking to sound process is not. i have a major problem, that is i think too much and play all the angles. btw, nice post. last nite i was chewing over somethings that been bothering me. first, i believe it was mention from someone in the sox org, that JR wanted another WS before he passes and at that point the sox can be sold, how ever that statement was made. i can't exactly remember how it was said. what happen if the sox FO is maneuvering the way the sox are investing in FA's so if the sox can not win by 2 or 3 yrs, the sox will sell off the players ..... JA will be 1 yr from fa, the major contracts will have expired, the 2 or 3yrs is the end of life commitment for trying to get the team a WS..... and if, God Forbid, JR passes, the sox can be in a position to sell the team and max the money .... let the new owners deal with rebuilding and all that comes with it. the lack of really making the push for Gordon or Cespy.... has me thinking really out there .... it doesn't make sense on many fronts, i just can't put my finger on it. so maybe JR and the owners has this in mind and no other FO management.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 04:00 PM) He lists Avi as our second best trade chip after Quintana. Seriously. i think that speaks for itself.

this is an excellent post with several good statements i will use your post to respond.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 03:41 PM) I think the writing is on the walls at this point. Simply put, the White Sox aren't getting Cespedes. This would be a very good time to come to terms with that & hope they find a way to improve the OF & maybe the back end of the rotation. i think we as fans would be happy with that, but would the sox higher echelon would be willing to do that????

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 04:17 PM) Don't get me wrong, I've liked the idea of Gardner for a while but if it take the caliper of p!ayer like Andrew Heaney to get Gardner, I don't see the Sox a fit. In all fairness though, keep in mind these were the speculations of East coast writers. If it were me, no f***ing way I would give up Heaney for Gardner unless the Yanks were adding more to Gardner. when i thought of all this, it was an article i was reading on how the yanks wanted to get away from some of their expensive contracts and get on the right side of the tax..... not that can't afford it, but for whatever reasons. pretty much as the dodgers are doing now. so with that, i thought what would it take, if the sox failed on the elite FA's and would Gardner fill a position or need. again excellent work.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 03:04 PM) This is possibly but a quick Google search has revealed that writers on the east coast have been writing about the Yanks being a good fit with the Angels in a Brett Gardner for Andrew Heaney swap. Not sure the Sox can afford that price. excellent info.... many thanks for finding that out. as i said this was truly a pipe-dream followed with a 25 yr macallan dreaming of another sox WS.....

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 03:48 PM) So if the Sox are really not serious or out on Cespedes, why not any offers or rumors of offers on Jackson/Fowler or an OF trade? I'm sure Hahn has put out feelers and possibly some talks, but it would seem that Cespedes is their #1 target. If it weren't, you would think something else would've been done by now or at least, the makings of something getting done. Right? This whole Cespedes saga is just weird! on the lack of talk about the secondary alternative, i am refraining big time and am asking that myself and to no one. hint..... team salary as of now, 113 mil + / - a few mil.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 09:01 AM) i assemble this list 2 weeks ago..... san - kenp, salary dump. La dod - ethier - salary dump brew - braun - salary dump yanks - brett gardner - this one is interesting, i read the yanks wanted out from his contract, so it can be salary dump or 2 low level pitchers, he can play CF, but i don't understand why they want him out???? i am sure i may have missed some. i was bored so i did this list. i was thinking of gardner as the #2 hitter, but what might the brewers be looking for, if they wanted to get out from Braun salary???

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 03:37 PM) If you are going to trade for Gardner, you might as well sign Fowler. They are pretty similar, only Fowler is younger, would cost the now #28 pick vs. at least a couple of your better prospects. i posted this last nite on the other thread. now for the other info that i didn't mention..... while you and probably many who are thinking like you may have a point. i am thinking with what it was said 2 weeks ago on an ny site. the yanks wants to get under the team tax and lower their salary. they want to rid the team with the long salary that they have now. in addition, this person stated that he wouldn't be surprise if the yanks were offer some pitching prospect, they may do the trade in a heart-beat. now this is where i was thinking about 2 - 2nd tier pitchers..... but i was also thinking of the recurring word being used...... may but still, as some may say, flowers..... the sox loose a comp pick however the sox will loose 2 pitchers that are 2nd tier now. for me, i think it is a fair trade.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 03:35 PM) FWIW (and it ain't worth much) ... Knocking down some beers with another big-time knowledgeable Sox fan ... similar to many of us in understanding the landscape of players throughout baseball and thirsting for knowledge about how these deals go down. Like me, he's a transactional attorney, so we get a special kick out of deal structuring as well (billionaires paying multi-millionaires, and all that jazz). HE has a friend that was a long-time Sox investor/advisor on the business side of baseball. According to MY friend, HIS friend said the Sox were and continue to be IN on Cespedes, but on their terms and are determined to not chase because of outside opinion. I think most of us agree that's very consistent with this ownership group from Day #1. No surprise there. They LIKE Cespedes, but don't LOVE him -- they'll take him as a value play, and that's value determined by their metrics. He's also told the framework of the possible deal is what many have suggested (this isn't rocket science): * Base deal is 3 years for X * Player opt out after year 2 * Mutual option for year 4 (player option vests upon objective performance) * Second mutual option for year 5 (player option vests upon objective performance in year 4, if any) In essence, POSSIBLY a 5 year deal with big bucks under certain circumstances. Plus, player outs to reenter the market should he feel like doing so for various reasons. Personally (and, of course, if true), I applaud the Sox for try to land a guy with a very high ceiling (but with a definite low-ish floor at this contract amount), but on their terms. At the end of the day, not only do you want a guy that wants to be here, you want a guy that is taking a deal because he's happy to get this particular deal. Mindset is important on most personal service contracts, but especially where there is reason to believe that the "talent" is a bit mercurial. I like the thought of bringing a guy in who is contractually motivated to out-perform his contract in a monster way over the next two years to benefit himself. This framework jives with the two-year plan for some of our other talent. i made something like that up 2 days ago, it was, to put it mildly said, and i am paraphrasing, it was a pipe-dream. but i still like the idea.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 22, 2016 -> 10:01 AM) http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball...ticle-1.2505462 Roc Nation reached out to Yankees in the last 24 hours as well, definitely is doing everything possible to stay in NYC and drum up the best offers from Mets and Nats. Seems the Yanks wouldn't come up with a three year counter-offer to the Mets...at least not with Gardner on the roster and Beltran as well. this is giving me some red flags in general. i know the yanks want to correct their team salary. but some team really being hesitant, being apprehensive ..... i just don't know about all this. if the Nat'l offer is legit 5 yrs and the salary. he should take it.