SI1020

I don't think he's always been allowed to manage with KW looking over his shoulder, dictating player moves, yelling and screaming and upsetting buffet tables.

Thanks for pointing out that book. I give you credit, you must do a lot of reading. I checked out that book, been down that road and don't care to go back. I've answered the "Who Killed JFK?" for myself as well as I'm ever going to in this life I think.

Sorry Neal, sorry board. I know one outing doesn't make or break any player. I'd just like to see some of the prospects KW got in recent trades pan out. Somebody I know is high on Cotts and in respect to him I'd like to see the kid do good.

Rent the movie "JFK" with Kevin Costner..... Stone/Garrison's theory will be explained for you there. And true, a democratic government stayed, but a goverment that (according to Stone/Garrison) was a complete 180 from Kennedy took over. That, IMHO, is a coup. I don't want to start a fight with you, but please please do not place the slightest bit of credence in Oliver Stone and his fantasy movie JFK. Garrisson was a complete nut job. Clay Shaw was acquited by a jury in something like 45 minutes. Most conspiracy theories when examined in depth vis a vis JFK just do not stand up to the light of day. Louisiana has a history of cuckoo politics. From Huey Long to Edwin Edwards to David Duke to yes Jim Garrisson. There are still a number of questions to be answered for me concerning this event in our history. I read Garrisson, Lane, Meagher and perhaps the greatest conspiracy theorist of them all Harold Weisberg. None of them made 1% as much sense as Gerald Posner did in his book Case Closed. This was an awful traumatic event in US history and it took me about twenty years before I could look at it in an objective manner.

I am 35 and my wife won't keep up with me. How come I am married to the only woman that has a decreased sex drive after 30? I am more horny now than when I was a teenager and there is no Viagra involved. Now I am all worked up and will have to go home and beat off to porn. Get a discrete and understanding girlfriend. hes got one lol...... Remember the old Eagles hit with the line "Lookin for a lover who won't blow my cover she's sooo hard to find"?

I don't want you to lose your shirt and get mad at me but the US dollar has been falling relative to other nations currencies recently including the Canadian dollar. You can get exchange rate info here This should help you make a better decision. Who knows what will happen if and when the bombs start dropping. Enjoy our watered down beer and save some that smooth whiskey for me when I make my next trip north to Toronto.

I notice in that box score that Neal Cotts got hammered pretty good. I was hoping that kid would amount to something. Not if he keeps pitching like that.

Sirotka was my favorite starter on that 2000 team. As far as "shouldergate" goes, what did KW know and when did he know it?

Don't forget his little encounter with "Rocco" in the diner at 4 AM.

Thanks.

Look real closely, particularly at the position players and you can get a pretty good idea who is and who isn't on steroids. Then you have players that have never been power hitters and then all of a sudden they hit 50. Then a couple of years later they're back to hitting 10 or 15. I can't for the life of me understand why any pitcher would take steroids. You don't need to bench press 300 lbs to throw hard. Look at guys like Randy Johnson or Pedro Martinez. In any case, steroids are a real bad deal. They shrink a certain part of the male anatomy among other things.

maybe we should wait till jose cansecos book comes out to compare notes on the roid thing huh.............does dave name names??? because jose's supposedly does........its due out end of march..........lol....... D Wells has always had diarrhea of the mouth. Like CWsox said he's a braggert..... and braggert's always exaggerate. Given the choice between believing D Wells or J Canseco, I'd believe Canseco. But, didn't Canseco say in an interview last year that 99% of MLB players are on some type of steroid? Maybe they're both egomaniacs and nothing they say should be believed. i just want to see that list so i know who to watch and see if they grow any during the season lol........ Have you seen how much smaller ShamME is now that he is willing to take a steroid test..... or is it just me? You're not the only one Cubkilla. Is he really going to take that test or what? If he does and then passes look for him to get big again.

We're having one of the all time worst winters on record where I live. Today the side streets are a sheet of ice. I hope you guys have a warm sunny time in Tuscon. Don't forget to keep your minds on business, you know the business of baseball. Would hate to see the two of you succumb to any temptation in the Arizona sun.

who was the manger (don't remember and don't feel like looking it up when you know right off Jeff Torborg. I liked him a lot better then Gene Lamont. I liked Torborg too. I'm having a brain lock on why he left and Lamont was brought in. The Sox were down in 91 compared to 90, but they still had a winning record. That 1990 season was really great, hardly anyone expected it, including me. Terry Bevington definitely was baaad.

Rex Hudler I'm impressed. Man there are some sharp people here. I had completely forgotten about pitching 3 innings to qualify for a save. Up until fairly recently lots of guys would pitch more than one and as many as three to finish the game.

I agree and I don't think anybody thinks I was dissing the young. At least I hope not. I'm only one mid life crisis away from being young again myself.

Let me second that. cwsox and I are roughly the same age and we have seen many a phenom come and go. I was starting to compile a list of cub phenoms in my lifetime that were busts. The list got so long I said the hell with it. Some of the names made me laugh as I remembered them from baseball seasons gone by. That being said, I've seen Prior pitch here in Pittsburgh and he appears to have great potential. I'd much rather have him than Kerry Wood, who I think is one blown elbow or shoulder away from disaster. I don't understand dissing our own Mark in favor of their Mark. Whatever happens in the future no one can tell, but as of right now our guy has really done something. I hope I haven't harmed cw's credibility here. No one on these message boards bats .1000 but cw does know a little about baseball. Youth is great but there is something to be said for the wisdom that comes from experience. Alright, but how many of those were #1 picks (besides van poppel) AND were labeled with THE next best phenom label? Secondly, no one on this board bats .1000? What does this say about the board when no one can bat Clayton's career average? LOL, i know it was just a typo. Anyway, as far as cwsox's credibility goes, i haven't been here long but he seems like one of the more knowledgeable posters on this board, even if his picture of navarre with the false caption makes me want to puke every time i read his posts. Also, i don't know how much of a "youth" you want to label college kids...and, isn't chisoxfan roughly my age also? The cubs have a history of overhyping young prospects. Many long time cub fans will even admit it and get a good laugh about it with you. As far as "youth" goes that would be just about anybody younger than me.

Apparently lots of Sox fans think Prior is the real deal. Time will tell. Like I admitted I was very impressed with him, but I don't want to shortchange our own Mark. After all I'm a White Sox fan not a (some things are better left unsaid). I'm looking forward to Colon and Buerhle being a really good compliment to each other. Warren Spahn once said (I'm paraphrasing) Hitting is timing. Good pitching is destroying a hitters sense of timing. Bartolo and Mark back to back will hopefully do just that. Back to the issue at hand. Even if Prior is a 20 game stud this year I don't think the cubs will amount to much of anything.

When I was a kid back in the ancient 1950's we lived close to North Park College. Many of the families in the neighborhood went to the Swedish Evangelical church at Christiana and Berwyn. Cub phenom Jerry Kindall went to that church and the kid that lived across the street never let me forget it. Jerry Kindall it turns out is a very nice guy and he was/is a great college baseball coach but the next Nellie Fox he was not. Other cub phenoms of the 1950's included Chuck Connors (of TV The Rifleman fame), Roy Smalley, Dee Fondy and Gene Baker. In the late 50's and early 60's the cubs always had the next Gabby Hartnett (cub icon and HOFer) at catcher. These "immortals" included Harry Chiti, Hobie Landrith and the very forgettable duo of Moe Thacker and Sammy Taylor. In that time period cub future HOFers Lee Walls and Andre Rogers come to mind. Rogers was decent for a while IIRC. Since this thread started about pitchers I remember a real phenom, my how the cubs promoted the great right hander Dick Drott. Actually the cubs promoted Dick Drott and Moe Drabowsky at the time. Both were busts with the cubs but Drabowsky did revive his career as a reliever with the World Champion Orioles in 66. My favorite cub pitching phenom of all time is Bill Faul. He actually claimed he could hypnotize the baseball!! Faul was great copy but he won a grand total of 12 games with the north siders. Apparently the baseballs didn't listen or maybe they thought they were supposed to take a ride to Waveland or Sheffield aves. In 69 and 70 when the cubs were busy blowing pennants it was said that they had a great future because of young pitchers Joe Decker and Bill Bonham. I thought Decker had great stuff and the cubs mishandled him. He tended to lose his composure when he got in a jam. One time I thought for sure he was going to punch Leo Durocher when he came to the mound to relieve him. Decker won 7 games in 4 years with the cubs before going to Minnesota and having a couple of decent years. As for Bonham, I used to call him "Bill Bomb Him" to my cub fan friends. Bill Caudill and Randy Martz are two more pitchers that come to mind. Both never lived up to their billing. There are more but I'm running out of gas.

Let me second that. cwsox and I are roughly the same age and we have seen many a phenom come and go. I was starting to compile a list of cub phenoms in my lifetime that were busts. The list got so long I said the hell with it. Some of the names made me laugh as I remembered them from baseball seasons gone by. That being said, I've seen Prior pitch here in Pittsburgh and he appears to have great potential. I'd much rather have him than Kerry Wood, who I think is one blown elbow or shoulder away from disaster. I don't understand dissing our own Mark in favor of their Mark. Whatever happens in the future no one can tell, but as of right now our guy has really done something. I hope I haven't harmed cw's credibility here. No one on these message boards bats .1000 but cw does know a little about baseball. Youth is great but there is something to be said for the wisdom that comes from experience.

I am 35 and my wife won't keep up with me. How come I am married to the only woman that has a decreased sex drive after 30? I am more horny now than when I was a teenager and there is no Viagra involved. Now I am all worked up and will have to go home and beat off to porn. Get a discrete and understanding girlfriend.

Buck Weaver was "one of the boys" in one sense, but very much on the periphery of the conspiracy. I'm not as well read as some on this, I did read Asinof and Algren. I am by far most sympathetic to Buck Weaver. He was on the verge of stardom and then got caught up in all this. Weaver was a quiet introspective guy who was not very expressive. He simply couldn't "rat" on his teammates. He made some bad choices, but I don't think he threw any games. IIRC he went 11 for 34 and played errorless ball. I don't think Jackson went into the tank either. Whatever money he took, whatever promises he made he still played ball. He led the team in BA and RBI's in the 1919 WS. People like to point to Chick Gandil as being a ringleader but I think the influence of Swede Risberg is underestimated. Jackson was very intimidated by him. As far as the owner goes, he knew what was happening but his pride and vanity worked against him. It didn't help matters that he and Ban Johnson couldn't stand each other.

Great link. What a trip down memory lane. A century of WS baseball. It's all there.

Boy you're not kidding. I relive that whole year every now and then. Billy Pierce and Dick Donovan had been the CWS #'s 1 and 2 starters from 55-58. Pierce went 72-42 and Donovan was 58-39. I believe only Warren Spahn and Lew Burdette of the Braves were superior in that 4 year span. Both had down years in 59. Pierce actually pitched pretty well until August. He threw a one hitter against the Senators in June, was named to the All Star team in July and pitched all 16 innings of a 1-1 tie against Baltimore in August. He may have hurt himself in that game because shortly after that he was sidelined for about 3 weeks. He had an awful September and finished 14-15. Donovan was 9-10. For reasons he never explained Mgr Al Lopez did not give Pierce even one start in the 59 WS. He loved Early Wynn who started and won in game 1, then got hammered in games 4 and 6. In game 2 3B coach Tony Cuccinello pulled a "wavin Wally" and sent Sherm Lollar home. Sherm was slower than Konerko and he was out by about 15 feet. End of rally, Dodgers win game 2 and never look back. I was 8 at the time and I knew the Sox would lose after that game. I wouldn't admit to anyone but myself but I knew. After the WS the Sox traded Norm Cash, Earl Battey, Johnny Callison, Don Mincher and John Romano away. This was the most tragic period in Sox history since the Black Sox IMO, even though the Sox remained contenders until 1967. The strike year of 94 was also a drag. Wouldn't a White Sox v Expos series have been great?

I'm glad my teaching career was brief. Historical and geographical knowledge are lost. Maybe forever.