Soxy

I think that's the most valid point out of all of this. I can think of a lot of criminal cases here in the states where the accused falsely confessed under duress. It's a bad idea. I'm reminded of a short story by Sartre (a bad example to prove the point, but torture gained a false confession nonetheless). The truth is, if we blur the line for this case, then it becomes all too easy to blur that line on the next case that comes along. Yes, it is awful beyond words that American lives were at stake. But we cannot hold ourselves above international law--violating those laws got us into this problem in the first place, and I can't see them curing this situation. The mere idea that TORTURE can gain postive results is so sick to me--a violation of human rights is a violation of human rights.

Same with the Lt. Col. West thread...

He's already said there are no WMD. But they've said they'll keep asking.

Jack, Jack, Jack....You don't need to stir up trouble too...And his column is 95% percent of the time wrong, at least that was my experience during the season. Let's hope he's as inaccurate about this as he was with his playoff predictions.

In college the couches are usually bigger than beds, so when you're told to "sleep" on the couch it usually means--race you! Woohoo! Just my two cents....

Thanks Jim, that helps a lot too. I always thought Saddam would be tried in an international court...It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Hm, interesting. Thanks a lot cwsox, I appreciate it!

So, wait, I've been reading looking for this all morning, cwsox. If we didn't sign the War Crimes Tribunal, how will he be tried?

Well let me just add this: the day I see a glowing article about the Sox in the Trib I will probably drop dead from a heart attack. Even the bad stuff about us is 10x worse. I have no doubt winter meetings are going awfully for us, but I doubt they're as bad as the Trib makes out. Conflict of interest much? I'm sure not a lot of progress has been made, but I doubt it's this apacolyptic.

Just checking, I wasn't expecting to see that when I opened the link. I was thinking sports not hot chicks. No harm no foul. Get some sleep kid.

Beastly, shouldn't this go on the Hot Chick thread?

Here is the legal basis for the Army's decision: These interrogation practices include beating detainees; forcing detainees to stand or kneel for hours; holding detainees in awkward, painful positions; depriving detainees of sleep by use of bright lights or loud noises; implementing psychological pressure; and withholding medical attention and painkillers to wounded detainees. All meet the internationally recognized definition of torture and cruel, inhuman and or degrading treatment and should be abolished and are in direct violation of international law as well as the definitions under United States law. Courtesy of the ACLU website. http://www.aclu.org/Files/OpenFile.cfm?id=13963 This definition was written at the Convention Against Torture and ratified in 1998 by the United states. I believe there are even clauses going all the way back to the Treaty of Versaille about this, but I'm not into Law, so I can't be 100% sure... I agree this is a tough call, and I am grateful I am not the one that has to make it. I am sure when faced with this decision international law isn't the first thought in mind...But if you want to read the laws the link is there....

Well, better than the previous rumor of Vlad signing with the Indians (although only slightly...).

NEW ORLEANS -- For the first time during Kenny Williams' four-year tenure, White Sox chairman Jerry Reinsdorf has joined the team's general manager and his staff at the Winter Meetings. Reinsdorf will meet with the White Sox affiliates during his stay in the Big Easy, but it also was suggested to Williams that his boss was just a moment's notice away if he had to make a call to talk about a trade. "You are assuming there will be any phone calls to make this weekend," said Williams with a laugh. Williams did not arrive in New Orleans until early Friday night, after his flight was delayed out of Chicago and he dealt with traffic and a long and winding cab ride to the hotel where the meetings are taking place. But the White Sox general manager didn't seem overly worried about missing out on any big moves during the first day of the weekend session. There's a good reason behind Williams' calm and cool approach. There's a very real possibility the White Sox will not make a move in New Orleans, aside from the requisite three or four blocks walk from the hotel to Bourbon Street, even with the constant talk of the salary crunch under which they have been placed by the contracts of seven or eight veteran players. "Absolutely," Williams responded when asked if he could leave town without the White Sox making a move. "As I sit here today, the most likely scenario is that we are standing pat. "We would rather stand pat than do something that doesn't make sense and [doesn't] make us a better club. If something presents itself, we will act on it. But understand that a lot of our groundwork is done way before these meetings start. If there were something out there that made sense, it already would have been done. "We are in a holding pattern, waiting to see what other clubs are deciding and presenting to us," Williams added. "To date, there's not anything out there that makes us better." That statement includes a reported three-way deal involving the Yankees and the Dodgers. Pitcher Kevin Brown would have moved from Los Angeles to New York, pitcher Jeff Weaver would go to the White Sox along with cash and prospects, and White Sox first baseman Frank Thomas would then be sent to the Dodgers. Thomas has a no-trade clause in his contract, but also would receive a $2 million bonus if he was traded -- a situation that partially could influence him to agree to the move. Even with Thomas' lofty career numbers in a White Sox uniform (a .300 average and more than 400 home runs and 2,000 hits), Williams would not be adverse to moving the Big Hurt if it helped his team. It was not something Williams believed played out with this particular scenario. "What was presented to us in the only case, and I speak on this because it was made public from the two cities involved, it just doesn't make sense," Williams said. "If it makes sense as a whole and makes us better, then I'm not afraid to do something because it's the nature of the business. "But don't spend too much time on that [Thomas] front. I don't believe anything will come of it." Williams hoped to land free agent Miguel Batista to help round out his starting rotation, but the Blue Jays signed the right-hander Friday to a three-year, $13.1 million deal. Williams mentioned that the White Sox, who were one of the final four teams in the running for Batista, came up short in terms of the number of years offered. Before leaving for New Orleans, Williams met with an agent in Chicago that he said had nothing to do with the bullpen help he's trying to provide after losing Tom Gordon and Scott Sullivan to free agency. He had no meetings scheduled for Friday night, although he reiterated that he is not really a meetings-type of general manager. The White Sox could leave New Orleans without making a move, but it doesn't rule out a move after the Dec. 20 non-tender date or sometime in January or February. Even if other teams believe the White Sox are in the market, Williams refuses to rush to action just for the sake of making news. "Out of all the teams in our division, I would think the White Sox will be most active," said Minnesota general manager Terry Ryan. "They lost Gordon and Sullivan and [Roberto] Alomar and [Carl] Everett and [bartolo] Colon -- a lot of good players. But there's still a lot of good players available."

U is spelled "you."

Mmmmmm, grammar, mmmmm spelling, mmmmm literacy.

Yes, let's throw 10 million plus dollars (for 5+ years) at I-Rod who is Injury prone and over 30. And at Vlad who has some major health issues as well. A five year contract with I-Rod is what the Sox don't need now. And WHY, WHY, WHY would we get Vlad when we have Magglio, CLee and Jeremy Reed coming up? That is not spending your money wisely. The same could be said for I-Rod--Miguel Olivo is going to be great--he's got one of the best arms in baseball and was on the all-rookie team. We do NOT need either of those two. The only case I could see if Tejada, and well, that money would be better spent on pitching.

I'm not complaining--I understand the economics of it completely. And that's was sort of the underlying point of my previous point. I agree that ownership shouldn't have to go into the red to lure fans, but without a winning a team it's harder to get fans to come. It's just sort of a circular debate. But I do see your logic, Bob, and I DON'T see the Sox being a high spending team until attendence goes up. I also see how that sucks for those of us that go to games. It's tough.

Yeah, yikes, that's all I have to say about it. Just yikes. YIKES. That boy ain't right. But I mean he's right, look at it this way: 100 million dollar plus payroll did great things for the Mets last year--oh wait...

Okay, I haven't been posting long, but I've been reading for a looooong time before I joined. So, here are my votes (for my 50th post--huzzah!): Poster of the Year: ChiSoxfn Thread of the Year: Definitely Heather's about our loveable underachievers Best Poster to start a Thread: DBaho Best Poster to add to a Thread: (Hardest one!) Steff, SuperSteve, cwsox, the critic Admin of the Year: All of them Mod of the Year: All of them Mr./Ms. Underrated: Heather Special Effects (Who posts the best pics): Cubssuck or The Cheat White Sox Baseball Analyst: Rex Hurdler/Southsider Cubbie: Beastly and BeGood Drinking Buddy: SideShowApu LOL (who makes you laugh): Beastly and SideShow (though I think SideShow knows he's being funny....) Anger Management Award (who makes you mad): That new Isreal4Life kid...Grrrr

2000. What's your point? When we DO spend the big bucks we do it unwisely. I don't see how 100 million of bad contracts will help us? 60 million well spent is better than 180 or 100 million that doesn't flow together as a team or that's slumping.

Thanks, it's amazing the difference a little colloquial swearing can make to a sentence. The only thing I think is kind of wacky about the Spos (well, other than EVERYTHING the MLB ownership does) is that after that looooong Canadian winter they don't want to go to Puerto Rico.

Hm, got all of that but carajo....Stupid formal spanish that they teach us....

Mon deux equipes preferes! Je voudrais aller! And there's the extent of my French. Anyway, I certainly will be watching that game. Wow, I think this should be a good game. And I hope they show the Sox being introduced in French--that would be cool. Anyway, I'm glad the Sox get to play them once before the ax drops on the Spos. Sigh.

Yep, white gold is much classier than regular gold and will bring out the shine and facets in the stone better. Also, the tiffany cut of the band is one of the nicest out there. Good job PA! Plus, it's, assumabely, her birthstone and you designed it yourself, so I would say it's like the perfect ring.