Chisoxfn

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 05:49 PM) So because of a bad two months by a 27 year old and 32 year old, they aren't starters anymore? Really? Personally I think they'll both have at least a few good years. The question is whether they are good fits for this offense. I think Swisher, when on, could be (assuming Thome is elsewhere, he can be to a lesser extent the Sox version of the Thome of a year or two ago, but with less power obviously, all while playing defense). The problem is the Sox are trying to win and at some point you have to ask, how long can we wait and when do we cut our losses, move them at less than market value (but than use those pieces to get guys that we think could help us now). Again, its not easy and I don't think its possible so I think for the most part we are stuck with what we have (and once those guys get going, maybe Kenny will realize the up's and downs of the past year are due to having a lot of guys that are likely to get into big slumps, and he'll move those players and pick up a few "pure" hitters to mesh in with the big poppers that are left.

On a sidenote, the Dodgers could definately use some power. They have a horrid contract on there hands as do the Sox and I'm thinking you could potentially make a trade where the Dodgers add power, lose a problem, and the Sox get one guy whose struggling (possibly to an extent because of an injury and a good young player (Dodgers get two guys, who when they get s*** together aren't all that bad). This would be a Paul Konerko/Nick Swisher for Andruw Jones/James Loney type of deal. Long term its a deal that might benefit both teams (if Konerko/Swisher get going, there slugging would be exactly what the Dodgers need) and from the Sox perspective Loney is the pure hitter you could stick in the 3 hole for years (plus contractually he's going to be cheap). Andruw Jones is a god-awful contract, but he still plays a plus CF and should provide power (albeit from a lower spot in the order) and who knows, maybe he gets healthy and starts to hit a bit.

If the Dodgers wanted to get gutsy, they could deal Ethier to the Sox for Orlando Cabrera. They would play OC at SS until Furcal comes back and could than slide him to 2B (again, this is probably very unrealistic). Its more me loving Ethier and trying anyway way to come up with some talent wise that would be a fair deal.

Personally I rank Shelby ahead of all of them. He is the #1 prospect in the organization in my opinion. This isn't what a generic scout would say and honestly if I were to truly rate a top 5 it would be Fields/Poreda/Broadway/Shelby/Richar and that says something (cause that is one truly s***ty top 5). Egbert based on his last night's start would knock Richar out of the list (but I'd like to see him further prove he's now 100%). The system is barren and I did that list very quickly and may very well be missing some people. Poreda is the only guy with super-star potential in the system and if I were going to peg a second guy it would be Shelby (the guy is a pure hitter with good power and athletism (but me calling him a super-star prospect is just me getting depserate because our system is that freaking bad). Broadway has a good chance of being a rock solid middle of the rotation starter (Radke type of guy). Egbert is a sinkerballer I absolutely love. Hitting wise, Fields has massive power, but very little of anything else that excites me (this is my personal belief and I also believe the Sox should trade him for a much more all around prospect to a team that is looking for an upgrade at 3B (since Fields is technically ML ready; Slugging like he did last year makes him just that). Cook is not a prospect (just want to point that out). Getz is a solid guy, but odds are he turns into a back-up infielder (if everything went well, Mark Grudzelanek type of guy). Other guys of note for me offensively: Stephan Gartrell (I liked the guy since he was picked out of San Fran or whever the hell it was in Nor Cal; He's a very good athlete).

Welcome aboard I actually wouldn't be opposed to Owens now that he's swinging a solid bat. More importantly though, his left handed bat plus speed would be an asset off the bench. I'm not saying he should be starting over Anderson (if the Sox opt to give Anderson more starts in CF) but I do think he could have a very valuable off the bench (situational bunting, base running, etc). Plus him sitting on the bench isn't like some superstar prospect sitting and having there development slowed (since the reality is, Owens is a role player).

TCSN: Sox Offense is One Hot Potato By Mario Scalise

QUOTE (29andPoplar @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 01:38 PM) Uribe? Uribe's also much better defensively than Fields at the hot-corner. I know I've been one of the people whose suggested bringing Fields up (despite his horrid numbers in the minors) solely to see if something could spark the team. I also continue to believe that Walker isn't at fault. In fact, if you really isolate things you'd see that AJ, Quentin, Crede are all doing fine. You than have two big time new-comers who are veterans (Quentin worked a bit with Walker and since he's younger and less proven the Sox coach to an extent helped with him from early in spring (I remember hearing such on the radio at least, plus a lot of Quentin's success has something to do with him getting healthy. These guys are OC/Swisher and you can expect a learning curve between Walker and OC. OC has picked things up (plus its his first year in Chicago so you'd expect some sort of buffer period while Walker adjusts to OC's swing/style). Swisher seems to finally be making some adjustments but the first month or so of his struggles you really can't point the finger at Walker (who has to learn Swisher's swing/intrecacies). Heck, I heard Chipper Jones interviewed saying how it took a few years before Gary Pendelton (Braves Hitting coach) was really able to help him with his swing (he still uses his dad the most, but Pendelton is now involved as well). The other two big time failures are: Jim Thome/Paul Konerko. Jim Thome is an old player so whose to say old age and a slower bat speed haven't caused his decline. Paul Konerko was clearly hurt and is a notorious slow starter so again, you could put the blame there. Juan Uribe is the other guy struggling and well, he's been far better in Chicago than he was in Colorado and I think everyone knows he won't win a batting title. Bottom line, if you really wanted to I think Swisher (only his recent struggles) is the only guys struggles that you can really put on Walker. Again, I think its clear that the vet middle of the order (highly paid) guys are the cause of the Sox struggles and its time Kenny realizes that maybe those guys he thought he could count on can't be counted on. The thing is, middle of the order run producers don't grow on trees and it won't be easy to find replacements (plus the Sox would have to move those guys in order to get the replacements). The other issue with the offense, aside from the two big middle producers (plus Swisher) tanking is the lack of a leadoff hitter and you can't put that on Walker. He shouldn't be fired, but if you've tried everything else and Kenny is convinced he can't get or won't part with Thome/Konerko, than its probably time to fire the hitting coach (because there really isn't another option).

QUOTE (jenks45monster @ Jun 2, 2008 -> 09:29 AM) My problem with releasing Uribe is that he's still set to be a Type B FA after this season. Why not just keep him on as a bench player seeing limited playing time, and pick up another draft pick next year? Because you would have to offer him arbitration and given the amount he is paid there is a decent chance he would accept arbitration and end up signing another 1 year deal with the Sox (because I don't know if many teams will be throwing him a long-term deal with more money than he's making currently).

I'm starting to lean towards Beasley. Offensively he can be a true force, ie the super star. The type of guy that no team can defend and he should be able to consistently score (and become the type of guy that goes to the line 10 times a game). That is something the Bulls haven't had since Jordan and it would be a tremendous addition to the offense. I would go with Beasley/Deng/Sef/Hinrich and find a way to acquire a legit C (and than rotate other guys in and out, including Noah/Thomas (who would both get significant minutes coming in, as would Nocioni). Defensively you'd be a bit undersized, but all of the wing players are good rebounders for there position and defensively you'd have to hope the center you acquire can be a shut-down type (plus you have Noah off the bench in case you need to ocassionally slide Sef or Hinrich to the bench and move Beasley to more of a 3 position.

QUOTE (whitesoxbrian @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 07:05 PM) And he's 6th in AL OF voting. He needs to be in CF, Quentin in LF, and Maggs in RF. But no, everyone wants to see Vlad and Ichiro. Let me guess- Bonds is on the ballot?? Seen you in a couple threads and just want to say Welcome Aboard!!!

QUOTE (29andPoplar @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 04:52 PM) Of course he is boxed in. If he could have pulled a deal today, he would have. He just better hope the team stays in 1st or at the very least afloat until a trade opportunity opens up. The guys who are struggling may turn it around somewhat but this offense as constructed will be prone to long dry spells. In the meantime the only weapon Guillen has is benching guys or firing Walker. Therefore it is likely he will bench 1-2 guys. Tuesday I see Crede on the bench for Ozuna and Konerko on the bench although Swisher is just as bad. The only name that's out there for the taking is Lofton but obviously been there, done that. I think that is where the Sox need to find a way to surrender some power and find a few guys that are good "pure" hitters (heck, even Randy Wynn types work). I really believe pure hitters tend to slump the list of anyone (since they use all fields and just have very good fluid hitting mechanics). Again, easier said than done, but I'd gladly take a couple guys who could hit .300 with 10-15 HR's and give up 2 of our guys that will hit .250 with mediocre OBP's and solid slugging %'s (just because I think a couple of those type of players will really help make this a balanced offense). Plus, if we need another guy that will hit .250, post good slugging numbers, we can always call up Fields.

QUOTE (29andPoplar @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 04:29 PM) It is very good they have a day off tomorrow. I was waiting for the Guillen explosion, sure enough it happened. At the moment, the only possible move I see is Konerko to the DL. I am not sure the trade market is open at this point. I'm thinking Ozzie may talk with Kenny and the one opening I do see is the Sox moving Crede to open up a spot for Fields. This doesn't necessarily mean Fields is better than Crede, I really don't think he is (and I have a lot of concerns with Fields) but moving Crede should be able to either get you prospets (which you can use to acquire another major leaguer to fill another spot) or get you a valuable major league part (in a ML for ML type of deal). I also could see Paulie getting DL'd, but it comes down to whether the Sox think he's done right now (due to the injury) or if he's working his way out of it (if he is, than having his bat back would be a HUGE HUGE addition to the lineup). Clearly you can't really trade Thome/Konerko (Despite how much I would be willing to do so) because the market probably isn't there for them (or at least not to the extent that you'd get value, but maybe Kenny has to bite the bullet on one of those guys for the sake of making changes).

QUOTE (29andPoplar @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 04:07 PM) Couldn't have said it better. Nicely stated. Maybe there will be a surprise transaction but I think this is a motivational ploy. These guys are too comfortable and something needs to get done. Konerko's AB in the 9th wasn't good, if Ozuna wasn't doing some heads up baserunning he wouldn't have even made 3rd. Crede didn't get it done and Swisher is dazed and confused at the moment. I really believe the wake up call will Walker getting fired. I haven't heard anything indicating Walker isn't a solid hitting coach, but clearly he's not getting through to his fullest extent and at some point you have to be judged by your record (and this offense has been pretty poor 3 out of the past 4 years (this includes the World Series year, where the offense was decent, but far from what I'd call good). Plus, I think Walker getting ousted should continue to wake guys up. In addition, I continue to believe the Sox may make an adjustment to the bench/roster (not via trade, rather AAA). I don't know if they'd send Wass down and get Getz up, plus make a move with one of there struggling bats (calling up Fields and making sure he rotates in). Interesting quotes from Kenny though as it sounds like this was Ozzie doing one thing and Kenny being out of the loop (I completely undersatnd Ozzie's frustration and a lot of this might be motivational to an extent, but at the same time, him and Kenny need to talk and get on the same page and quickly). Wholesale changes have to happen to this offense, but I think everyone has been well aware of that for some time on here (specifically finding a legitimate leadoff hitter, getting CF covered, and finding a way to replace struggling vets with solid vets or young players (because regardless of what Thome/Konerko/Swisher have done, none of it matters when you aren't producing and I'll put up with growing pains if it gets the Sox some players who will be trending "upwards" and not spiraling "downwards" (note that Swisher doesn't necessarily fit into the over the hill part, but he's clearly struggling).

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 02:40 PM) Direct quote from Guillen broadcasted on WSCR: "If we think we're going to win with this offense we're full of s***." HAHAHAHAHAH. I love it. I don't care if he's throwing his offense under the bus, it's true. Too bad there's nothing much Williams can do. At the least, he has assured tomorrow's offday will be interesting. That may be the greatest Ozzie quote yet.

QUOTE (Big Hurtin @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 02:12 PM) Guillen has enough after loss By Mark Gonzales - 3:47 p.m. ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - After watching his underachieving offense go 2-for-14 in a 4-3 loss at Tampa Bay, manager Ozzie Guillen promised some changes to his White Sox roster. "Just be ready because I expect movement Tuesday," Guillen said. "I expect Kenny to do something Tuesday, and if we don’t do anything Tuesday, there are going to be a lot of lineup changes. That’s all I’m going to say about the offense. "It can be me. It can be (hitting coach) Greg Walker. It can be the players. It could be anybody. I’m sick and tired to watch this thing for a year and a half. I’m not protecting anybody anymore. (Bleep) it. "If they can’t get it done, Kenny should find someone to get it done. That’s it." link http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune....en-has-eno.html I'm guessing a couple things, the least likely being a trade. I'm thinking Greg Walker will be fired and Josh Fields will be called up (and we'll see him get significant playing time at 1st base/DH (with Paulie/Thome/Swisher all getting some time off). We are also going to see more of Brian Anderson, me thinks.

QUOTE (dasox24 @ Jun 1, 2008 -> 02:58 PM) From what I've read, that would be severely over-drafting him. Castro is hard to peg. He has a lot of physical ability but is considered very raw (and much more a project than the typical college player). I have no problem with him, its just there are other guys that I grade out higher. I'm really hoping Skipworth falls to the Sox (or Smoak), Otherwise I'm leaning Wallace/Beckham. The interesting thing is if the Giants took Beckham, you'd than be talking about Smoak potentially sliding down (again probably not to 8, but you never know).

Thats stellar. Egbert obviously had a rough start but the ability is there and Ken Williams the org really were impressed with Egbert last season. He has a very good ability to pitch and he's starting to get his feel back (or at least i hope he is).

What a stellar start by Arisbo. Titans now get the Bruins in another 30 minutes or so. There backs are to the wall, but the complete game definately helped. I assume Renken will get the nod in the game vs the Bruins. Come on Titans, find a way to pull out two more wins this regional!!!!

Richard is not at all like Heath Phillips.

We hadn't restarted the server in over 260 days, so shut-er-down and it usually causes about a 30-45 minute outage.

Mizzu freaking choked.

Fullerton got spanked. IT comes down to the fact that there pitching is not good and that doesn't bode well in post-season play. Offensively they are as good as any past Titan team (same Titan offensive style too) but the rotation just doesn't have any aces. UCLA is in a real good spot now.

Bad call, replay shows that hit the ground.

Holy s***, that was a unique catch by the Mizzu OFer.

Mizzu brings in a guy I really like, Kyle Gibson. Game is notted at 5 (Mizzu has came back and this is a great game). Gibson is very projectable, imo.