Chisoxfn

I want to again reiterate one thing, everything you read on a forum isn't necessarily true and there is no reason to believe Silverio is anything but 17. Hint hint, read between the line's people (I'm pretty much telling you that you need to filter some of what was previously posted on here).

I love the new format which has the double throughout and than the best of 3 finale.

Locked for your viewing pleasure...oh and Sox are so gonna beat the DOdgers on tuesday and put an end to that road losing streak. In fact, I'm forecasting 2 out of 3 against the Dodgers with a slight possibility of a White Sox sweep (over the Dodgers).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 07:52 PM) Frankly, I don't think the numbers back you up here. If you're claiming 4 starts out of 8 games is ok then that's you're argument, but I'm looking at the game logs from 06, looking at the splits from 05, and there's certainly no sign that Brian was considered the regular as of April 15th on. Mack started in CF on day 2 of the season, April 4, then on April 9, April 15, April 16, April 19th, April 22nd, April 30th. Had a total of 62 at bats in April with was sort of tolerable, but then by May he was getting fewer at bats than Mackowiak was by a long shot (64 for Mack and 48 for BA, June was 46 for Mack and 51 for BA despite BA making that brilliant catch against Hafner that led Ozzie to declare him as the starting CF officially). He had quite a bit of playing time, but he was still essentially treated as a platoon player from day 1. You can argue that his bat deserved that, I'd respond that Mack's defense in CF was costing us more games than the difference between the 2 bats, but I just don't think the numbers argue that the Sox made an adjustment eventually when the Adjustment happened on April 15th. On Mack's defensive case, I fully agree and I remember me and you being the two biggest proponents in just sticking with BA because he was easily saving a hit a game compared with Mack (cause Mack was that bad out there) and that is more than enough to make up for Brians stick (again, this didn't make BA's production acceptable, it clearly wasn't, it just made him a better option that Mack).

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 07:52 PM) Frankly, I don't think the numbers back you up here. If you're claiming 4 starts out of 8 games is ok then that's you're argument, but I'm looking at the game logs from 06, looking at the splits from 05, and there's certainly no sign that Brian was considered the regular as of April 15th on. Mack started in CF on day 2 of the season, April 4, then on April 9, April 15, April 16, April 19th, April 22nd, April 30th. Had a total of 62 at bats in April with was sort of tolerable, but then by May he was getting fewer at bats than Mackowiak was by a long shot (64 for Mack and 48 for BA, June was 46 for Mack and 51 for BA despite BA making that brilliant catch against Hafner that led Ozzie to declare him as the starting CF officially). He had quite a bit of playing time, but he was still essentially treated as a platoon player from day 1. You can argue that his bat deserved that, I'd respond that Mack's defense in CF was costing us more games than the difference between the 2 bats, but I just don't think the numbers argue that the Sox made an adjustment eventually when the Adjustment happened on April 15th. At some point in 06, wasn't Mack playing other positions so his AB's are a bit skewed (playing for Dye when Dye was out with spider backs and replacing Pods at various times through part of his injuries, although Pods 06 wasn't near as bad as his 07). I may be wrong, but I swear BA was the starter the first two months of the season and than at that point it shifted a bit more to Mack but even than you were talking much more a 50/50 split which isn't terrible or what I'd consider too little play to truly develop. Again, could be wrong, but regardless he had just over 350 ab's and played in 130 plus games which is definately a good chunk of action. And people point to his improvement the 2nd half of the season, but it should be pointed that his improve was bound to happen, you just can't be that bad for that long but his approach/swing looked as bad towards the end of the season and it did in the beginning so very few if any adjustments were made (and the reality was that lack of focus was the reason his playing time dropped, more so than the lack of production).

QUOTE (the People's Champ @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 01:15 PM) Ramirez is a dead pull hitter as well, that's not stopping him from hovering around .300. Plus the dude has never his ML pitching before this year. I don't know if I"d call Ramirez a dead pull hitter. He's shown opposite field power and I've seen tons of hits back up the middle. That said, the past week or so his swing has gotten a bit longer. Still, he's a pretty pure hitter so to speak and I definately wouldn't classify him as a pull hitter (that said there is still a lot ot learn about this guy as the scouts are getting a better book on him and he's going to have to make some adjustments and improve in his strike zone recognition and ability to hit the breaking ball). ALso, as he plays more he should gain more comfort regarding some of the pitchers he's facing.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 01:11 PM) There's nothing stopping me from comparing the two. I've never advocated starting Brian over Swish, and, ask anyone, I carry Brian's jock more than anyone. BA should be starting now that PK is hurt, and always in CF (not sure why he wouldn't), but he's a solid 4th OF option. His biggest problem right now is that he's DEAD pull. He's getting by on hits between SS and 3B. He's eliminated a bit of the hole in his swing, but I'd like to see him spray the ball more. Of course, he's pressing, because he knows his ABs are limited, and he still fully thinks he's capable of starting. Anderson is an even money lock to hit a soft grounder to 3B practically every time. His swing is improved but its rather disgusting watching him hit because he really doesn't use any of the field. He needs consistent playing time but I don't know if it should be at the major league level (although I have zero problem playing him every day while Paulie is on the DL, because if he sticks you win. That said Wise isn't near as bad as some of you say and he's had a great approach up at the plate thus far). Still, the long-term benefit is in BA, but he clearly isn't near as polished a hitter as Wise (but most major leaguer's or even bench players are more polished than Anderson...hell a lot of minor leaguers are to be honest).

QUOTE (WCSox @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 01:06 PM) Just to be fair, it was pretty obvious to everybody here back in '06 that Garcia was in rapid decline. He pitched with a ton of heart that year, but he was reduced for getting hitters out with junk. +1 If for no other reason that we don't have another ML-ready natural CF in the organization. Anderson has shown enough thus far to merit a spot as a 4th outfielder, IMO. This is true, but lets think back to the end of last year. Jose Contreras after being absolutely horrid puts together a few solid starts in a row. People like me think they need to do everything possible to get rid of him (reality was no one would have taken him as now people are putting a much greater focus on prospects) but instead the Sox stick with him and he's at least given us a quality half of a season (still have no idea what we get from him last year) when everyone here wrote him off for dead (despite him being much improved after his short benching last year). So while we thought Garcia was dead (and I had zero problem moving him, just as I'd have zero problem moving Contreras now for something valuable while you can, although if your a competitive team it may not be a great move or a good sign to the fans), there was legitimate reason to think he'd figure things out (fatigued arm would get better and he had nothing but a tremendous track record, plus the reality was the Phillies weren't giving up some premiere prospects, Floyd was a project who was not going to make it in Philly and Gio was a B prospect (not a knock on Gio, he's just not an upper echelon prospect, although he's a legit major league prospect with a lot of value).

QUOTE (the People's Champ @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 12:26 PM) The difference is, I have nothing invested in him. I'm not hanging on to the tiny shread of hope that this kid may, MAY, just one day get it. I have the easy job. I can just wash my hands of him because I have nothing to lose. That's the difference, smart guy! The thing is, his value outweighs his worth on the trade market. No team is going to give up much to get him, at best you'd get a former first round pick who failed (and to a degree, Kenny has had success with this in the past in the Floyd deal (although at that time Garcia was talent) but more specifically in the Thornton deal (1 busted first rounder for another in Joe Borchard). Bottom line, unless the right deal came along (and rarely do they), the only thing you'd get is a potential fringe prospect at best and when you compare that to Anderson's worth (even right now, he's got a spot on a 25 man roster, at least on an NL team in the pinch run/defensive replacement mold) who has at least the ability to be a .270, 20-25 HR, gold glove centerfielder. Again, I'm not saying it will happen, but Gary Matthews Jr. was a pretty talented guy that took a while to develop (you could make the case that even now he's not that great, but he has some value and given Anderson's defensive ability, if he could put up stats to a similar mold as the average GMJ it wouldn't be terrible). Again its a bit of a stretch given Matthews is a very patient player so he can get away with his lower average to an extent (although there is no denying his career has been poor for most of his career with a couple good years in between (texas) which led to him getting an inflated contract.

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 09:46 AM) My point in comparing Anderson to Crede is that we need to have patience with young players who struggle. Now is the perfect opportunity (with Konerko on the DL) to give Anderson some meaningful, consistent playing time. He's not hurting us defensively, and isn't killing us offensively. Sadly, on any given day, he has one of the top 6 averages in our line-up. Let's see what he can do with two weeks of at bats. If he plays well, he can get 3 or 4 starts a week in center while we rest Dye, Swisher, Quentin and Konerko the rest of the way. Great post and I agree with this to an extent. The problem is Anderson is in a bit of a rut as he hasn't gotten consistent playing time and I really believe the only way to get him out of it is by letting him stink for a couple weeks of starting or sending him down to the minors. He's just in a very tough spot but I must commend him for handling things very well, which is something he hasn't done in the past. I'm really hoping he can suceed because he has a lot of natural ability.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 09:44 AM) The thing about his "full season" is that it wasn't full. He could hardly get a streak of consecutive games played without sitting out a day for Brian Mackowiak. Not only would that disrupt rhythm, but also perhaps confidence. Another fact that was virtually ignored by the White Sox was that he batted .257 the second half of 2006. .257 is very respectable, especially at the stage of development he was at. But all the Sox looked at was the overall .225, which was concerning but not representative of the strides he made. I think this is a bit of a myth. He started pretty consistently the first few months of the season and at one point the Sox finally had to make an adjustment and started running Mack out there a bit more, but even at that point you were still getting 4 starts or so out of Brian in every 8 games which is nothing too bad (given how much he played the first couple months of the season). So the reality is he had quite a bit of playing time that first year. Last year was essentially wasted due to injuries and this year it is hard for him to truly develop and improve his swing since he's had limited AB's (the thing is, he's definately made strides/progress with it, but he's never going to master it in-season as there is only so much cage work you can do and at one point you got to refine and complete it facing live competition). The honest truth is the best thing that could happen to Brian would be him spending the 2nd half of the year (until around September) in Charlotte (unless of course he gets a hot streak and can battle his way into a starting spot right now) with the Sox utilizing Jerry Owens and Dewayne Wise (Wise being the defensiev guy) in the outfield. I actually could see something like this going down if Owens can ever get healthy (heck the Sox could even bring up Richar and use Ramirez still as the starter but Richar playing some 2B/SS/3B (with Ramirez ocassionally pitching in in cf).

I'm curious, but what is wrong with Anderson's minor league background. He did nothing but rake at all levels throughout his career. I remember long writing that despite his above average numbers that he had a flaw in his swing which would be exploited, but if you are going off the basis of minor league numbers, his higher strikeout totals were the only real alarming thing (and you can point high-strike out totals as an issue with practically any power hitting minor league prospect). Of course there is a difference between high strike out totals and Josh Field's like strikeout totals Honestly, if anything, when you look at Anderson's minor league data you could actually put some of the blame on Sox management for rushing him. He was clearly outproducing his ability (given the flaw in his swing) at AAA Charlotte prior to getting the big league job handed to him. The Sox player development people should have been aware of this (because it really didn't take an expert to see Anderson's swing and realize the holes) and been consistent with Brian to get things in a better place. That said, we don't know Anderson's attitude for that and maybe it would have taken him struggling initially at the majors before he'd be willing to make any adjustments to his swing. Right now, he's in a funk, but it really is hard for him to get into any sort of consistent groove given the limited playing time. Honestly, between last seasons injury and this year's limited playing time we are talking about 2 years of wasted development, imo. His full season in the bigs could be considered a bit of a rush, but I can't call it wasted development since he was playing everyday (even though he was getting used and abused).

Either way...totally cool.

Happy Bday to my beard loving friend!!!!

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 06:09 AM) ACK ACK! ACK ACK ACK ACK ACK!! ACK!

QUOTE (danman31 @ Jun 23, 2008 -> 12:44 AM) More or less a non-prospect with the disappointing season he's had. Was never a big prospect, but he's in AA in his 2nd full season of pro ball. He was taken out of college, spent one year in rookie ball, started last year in Kanny, did well there and got promoted to W-S where he was decent. He's been bad this year. His K rate is kinda high this year, that might be why he's struggling. Gerst is in his 3rd year of rookie ball. He sounded like a decent prospect when he got picked and I think I said something about that here, but he hasn't performed. If he does well to finish this year and then succeeds at Kanny, we might have something, but for now he's just a guy in his 3rd year of pro ball facing rookies. Gartrell is one of those guys I really liked when we drafted him. He has good tools across the board and had a solid professional debut. However, as a collegiate player his age quickly becomes a concern as you can rarely afford to have back to back years in the same league and Gartrell is going to have to have a strong 2nd half to earn a promote to AAA next year (he's capable of it). I wouldn't necessarily call him a non-prospect, just because he has some tools, but I'm not about to pencil him into the Sox lineup either. He's a guy that right now is probably nothing, but if it just took him a couple months to get used to AA and make adjustments, he could put himself on that prospect radar.

Also remember, just because something was posted on a forum doesn't mean it was true. I'm going by the assumption that Silverio is 17 until proven otherwise. It is much harder to fake your age today than it was in the pre 9/11 days.

Otherwise, I'm going to watch There Will be Blood. Hopefully that movie lives up to its hype, unlike this game.

Okay, Ramirez gets on, than Thome hits a pinch hit HR.

Nice, Crede gets away from pulling it and knocks in a run. Too bad Derosa flat out robbed Swisher or we'd have two on. Either way, lets get a few right here.

I think you could make a serious case that it would actually be a good idea to do that if it allowed you to get completely rid of Zito's contract.

Holy crap, that is amazing. That might be as amazing of a catch as I've ever seen.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ Jun 22, 2008 -> 05:44 PM) So a TECHNICALITY is something to be happy about when this team is terrible and soon about to LOSE that technicality? LOL. Ya, ya it is. The Cardinals were a terrible team that got first place on a technicality and somehow ended up winning a world series. Bottom line the goal of a team in the regular season is to get into the playoffs and at that point, anything can happen. Right now the Sox are in that position and statistically speaking (I hate statistics because i think the run pythagreom is a bit of BS) are one of the best teams in baseball (based on the differential, although that is over-estimated by the fact that this offense can explode for huge outbursts but for the most part the offense doesn't help a club that needs to get a key run late in games, as evidenced by the lack of knocking in a potential game winning run on Friday in the top of the 9th).

Hopefully if the Sox do lose tonight I can come in and snap the funk on Tuesday when I'm at the game in LA.

Funny thing is, you take away two innings and it would be the Sox going for the sweep as opposed to the Cubs tonight (Cubs are going to get the sweep too because Dempster has a low pitch count and hasn't gotten hit hard at all). Plus there's the whole 5 run deficit.