Chisoxfn

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 02:10 PM) Its called depth. DEPTH. Right now, the Sox dont have much of it a AAA. Having 6 guys who are capable of winning at the major league level is a must IMO. As for the Taveras thing, I really expect big things out of Anderson, and obviously brining in Taveras would mean at least 1 more year of Anderson on the bench, which im not sure he needs. However, like Jas said, Taveras could replace Pods at the top of the order in a few years could work out. Count is a tremendous talent. If we trade him, I dont care who we get, there will be a big part of me upset to see him gone. However, trades dont always have to be equal in talent, ie-Carlos for Podsednik. If we could get Taveras, a good bullpen arm like Qualls, and a pitching prospect ready to make the jump into the big leagues by mid season or next year, I would think about it. I'm not a huge fan of the deal, but if they get a really good pitching prospect, a starting centerfielder who should grow, and a good reliever than I can see the move helping the club. However, I'm not much of a fan of giving up Contreras. I think he turned the corner last year and if he pitches like he did over the 2nd half of the season for all of next year (or at least a major portion) than I think he'll be the runaway Cy Young award winner. The guy was freaking nasty and best of all he was consistently nasty (something everyone was waiting for from him). To me he's shown no signs of slowing down so I have no problem going with him and than hoping we can sign him during the season or next year for another 2-3 years. If we can't we'll have time to negotiate him before we release him (or so I assume or however his contract works out) or we can always do something. Plus if he walks away, so what, if he comes close to being the Cy Young guy that I think he'll be next year than he'll benefit this club enough and Brandon can slide into the rotation. If he ends up signing long term, than the Sox can move one of there other starters (probably Freddy or Vazquez) and finally move Bmac into the rotation. Either way the Sox are in the drivers seat and I wouldn't make a trade just for the sake of making a trade. Aside from the bullpen (which I think could use another good arm) I think this team is ready to go out and defend their title.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 06:42 PM) ESPN is reporting that this may turn into a gigantic, 4 team mess involving the Devil Rays, Mets, Orioles, and Red Sox, with Manny and Baez going to the Mets, Julio Lugo and Clement (and I think Benson?) going to Baltimore, Tejada going to Boston, and a few other guys including Andy Marte going to Tampa. I think it just looked like way too big of a mess to ever happen, especially with the dollars the Orioles' would be taking on. Baltimore has never had any problem taking on contracts so I don't look at that as a major road block. However, when this many teams get involved the odds of everyone being happy are slim.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 02:01 PM) Do you like the possibility of having Joe Borchard take over on an everyday basis? That's all I'm saying if BA is given the everyday job, and someone goes down from one of three spots. Pods went down last yr, Dye has gotten hurt over his career, and expecting a rookie to play 162 games at a high level may be a bit much w/o a clear backup plan. Pods would slide to center and you'd see Makoviak be the everyday outfielder along with Jermaine Dye. Its not pretty, but if someone went down for an extended period of time (ie the season) than I'm sure Kenny would go out and find himself a capable replacement via the trade front.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 12:30 PM) Well, if that's true, it sure isn't showing up in the stolen base department. Harris has had an 80% success rate, while Taveras' has been only 76%. The two players are very similar, but I'd probably take Harris, seeing as he can play CF and 2B. Ya and throw out the fact that Taveras was the starting CFer on a world series team. The guy hit .290 at the major league level as a rookie (who skipped AAA). Thats pretty darn impressive and I don't get why people don't think he can build on it. This guy will likely get better and he should improve his eye as he gets better aclimated to major league pitching. I'm not saying this is a great trade but I laugh at everyone who is calling Taveras crap. The guy is a better defensive player than you give him credit for he and brings a lot of things to the table. I also have to keep reiterating that a lot of you people are dreaming in what you expect Brian Anderson to do in his first full season. I don't know what Brian Anderson you were watching, but he's got a long ways to go from the guy I saw at the major league level for a very small sample of at bats (but he looked freaking TERRIBLE during those Ab's). He basically had one game. The tools are there, but don't expect Anderson to put up the numbers a lot of you expect. I wouldn't expect much more than a .250 avg, 100 plus strikeouts, not too many walks and 15 Hr's. He will not have a .330 OBP, maybe I'll be wrong, but if he's going to do any better than that he'll have had to make a pretty big stride from the level of play he was playing this past year.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 07:51 AM) But even if you look at minor league numbers, Brian Anderson had a higher carrer minor league average, on-base percentage, and slugging percentage, and looking at Taveras' minor league numbers, he's never been a guy who gets XBH. Who gives a s***. If your at the top of the order thats not your job. If the Sox feel they need a #2 hitter to help get them to repeat and in a few years that 2 hitter (ie Taveras) could replace Pods at the top of the order than I think this move makes sense. I don't know what Kenny's thinking but I could see him thinking along these lines. I'm sick of a bunch of people throwing out a few stats to make there case. I got news for people, you can throw stats out for whatever the f*** case you want. There is no definitive stats unless your talking about a superstar. I remember everyone who b****ed about how Paulie couldn't hit on the road. Sometimes you have odd splits certain years while other times you'll have the exact opposite splits. Didn't Crede or someone hit way better on the road than at home? How could that happen since everyon thinks that just because your hitting at the Cell means you'll be far better at home as opposed to the road.

Happy New Years Everyone

QUOTE(SnB @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 02:07 PM) all you have to do is get jason to reply and we'll cancel each other out.

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 03:57 PM) all ive learned in reading this thread is that WCSox has a man crush on willie taveras and that juan pierre and sammy sosa have the best arms in baseball. And of course that Arnie Munoz is the best prospect in baseball or thats what were all passing on to the Orioles

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 02:42 PM) the only time he played more than 15 GAMES for a minor league team was in 2002. He missed all of 2001. No, he spent all of 01 ripping up the Southern League putting up awesome numbers with the Barons. The Baseball Cube just doesn't have his 01 stats in there.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 02:30 PM) The Yankees are contenders every year and have the largest payroll in baseball and even they went with the completely unproven Robinson Cano at second base. We don't even have half the Yankees' payroll so it would make even more sense for us to try the unproven Brian Anderson. That kind of refutes your whole point, doesn't it? Technically I thought Womack was going to play 2nd (or maybe they planned on him playing in the OF) but he stunk and Cano eventually replaced him. Cano didn't start the year as the starter.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 02:24 PM) Are you serious? Ya, it was one of the big reasons he gets ripped as much as he did. The kid had talent, lots of it, but he refused to work and was hitting the bong all the time. He thought he was great and wasn't willing to go out and do the things it takes to become a good ballplayer.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 01:14 PM) You don't waste a top prospect for a full season in the majors as a fourth outfielder. You may as well keep him at AAA if that's the scenario. Why not ease a player into a situation. With Ozzie the 4th outfielder gets tons of Ab's and it takes pressure off the youngster. That said I'm not a proponent of this trade. I'd rather stick with Anderson over the long haul.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 01:10 PM) What are we really looking for from our centerfielder this year? Either way anderson is very good defensively. He will be one of our three fastest guys... he is a good base runner... just not a base stealer. He will struggle with the bat but in the end all that the sox are looking for is really good defense from him, which they will get. This season Anderson won't be much different than Arow was last season. Arow will be better offensively and defensively, but over the long haul Anderson is going to be the better player, imo. He's got the ability to be similar to Torri Hunter (in fact I think they have similar swings). However, those pencilling him to put up these amazing numbers, well I think they are wrong. For some reason people always expect rookies to come in and live up to there hype. They will develop.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:51 PM) Jason, what a great post, one of your best. Nice job. I just hate how people can pigeon hole a player based on a couple stats. If we looked at stats we wouldn't have acquired Juan Uribe. He's not a statiticians dream but what he is is a very talented shortstop that can play some defense and hit for power (and I think we'll continue to see him develop offensively). Sure Uribe has flaws, but I for one am glad we traded a stat type player (Aaron Miles) for a scouts type of guy (Juan Uribe). In general, good baseball players with skills are an asset to a club.

QUOTE(qwerty @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 12:04 PM) The downside to stealing bases is greater than it is not to. But no one here will ever believe it ( well most). http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2607 I know stats show that, but I stick to my guns that stats don't show how the style of play changes when you have a speedster on 1st. You don't have accurate stats (just showing what someone hits with a runner on 1st doesn't do that) that can account for a hitter seeing more fastballs when a quick guy is on 1st. You don't have stats that show how a pitcher gets rattled when he's worried about changing his move to the plate as well as varying his pickoff move to 1st so he can keep the guy close. There are a lot of things statistics can't take into account. Now I dont' think everyone should steal and sure there is a point where its not worth it, but I don't agree with any one particular percentage. I think it varies. You also don't have a stat talking about how in a hit and run you open up a full side of the infield allowing a good slap hitter to get a much easier basehit (and in result you 1st and 3rd them). There is a lot of the game that can't be determined by stats. If this game was won by stats, than some robot programmed with all the stats would be better than any manager out there. And that isn't the case. You also can't show me defensive stats the say a guy has a great arm. Defensive stats are for the most part very imperfect. The eye and a good judge of talent is way better at telling how good a defensive player is than the statistics statheads spout off (such as Range Factor and Zone rating). There is a lot more to the game of baseball than stats. For example...offensively Juan Pierre >>> Aaron Rowand if you are looking for a leadoff hitter. If your not, than thats another story. Everything fits into a mold. Whose the better all around player, I feel its Aaron and I think most would agree with that. That said, Pierre has his value and to some teams he'd be more valuable than Rowand. It all depends on what a team needs. If you are the Yanks or Cubs and are desperate for a leadoff hitter, than I think you'd be better off with Pierre than Rowand. I'll take a good mix of both stats and scouts and use them to come up with what works. Hell, if we listened to stats you'd have a lot of those stat people tell us how the Sox shouldn't have won the world series. We ran ourselves out of tons of runs and didn't walk enough to score effectively. However, stats would show we had great pitching. The mix was good enough to be the 5th team in baseball history to go wire to wire and win it all I'm also glad that Ken Williams isn't Billy Beane. Last I looked Kenny has one of what matters (a World Series Ring as a GM). Edited: For some reason I typed in Juan Uribe instead of Pierre

QUOTE(WCSox @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 11:40 AM) I haven't watched much of Sammy since he went to the O's last year, but he had a freaking cannon back in his prime. If you don't know that, you haven't been paying attention. Exactly, whats 5 years ago matter. He doesn't have an arm anymore, which is exactly what I said.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 11:37 AM) ESPN echoes what Chisoxfn said... http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/scouting?statsId=4344 You arm strength tends to get a lot worse when you aren't injecting roids into it anymore.

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 31, 2005 -> 11:25 AM) I'm dead serious here, do you huff gas before watching baseball? Pierre and Damon are atrocious center fielders and Sammy does not by any stretch of the imagination have a cannon for an arm. Maybe 5 years ago Sosa had a good arm (couldn't throw it accurately though). Just like a few years ago Damon was a pretty good fielding Cfer (basically during his A's days) but he's never had anything but a total noodle arm.

Thats pretty cool.

From the Trib. Thats a pretty damn good offer assuming Bmore is willing to add the payroll (and I think they are). Clement has good stuff and he stunk after getting drilled with a baseball in the 2nd half. Before that he was pitching quite well and will help there rotation. And than there is Ramirez, who is in my opinion the best run producer in baseball. Obviously this has to do with freeing up payroll but talent wise (and salary/attitude asside) Manny >>> Miggy and than to add Clement to it, I think this is the deal Bmore makes. They improve the offense and pitching staff in one fell swoop and Angelos has never had problems with adding payroll.

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 07:40 PM) yeah, part 6 was a joke. Ah good. I didn't nkow if maybe you meant to say some other name there or who knows. But I agree, lets pass that info to Boston Gammons. I like the idea of them thinking Munoz is a can't miss stud.

LSU does whatever it wants to do. Miami BLOWS.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 07:20 PM) Jas, couldnt they leave him as a player to be named later if there was a timing issue, and then complete the deal officially after the term was complete. Often times you can go that route, but I think there is a limit on how long a player can be a PTBNL and in this case that would be one long time for that to happen. I always forget the rules when it comes to this things. I have a couple different variations in my mind and I forget which is the right one.

QUOTE(shawnhillegas @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 06:40 PM) so the way i understand it the white sox have a few clear advantages in the tejada talks. 1. we seem to be the only team offering a ss in return for tejada. 2. we are not trying to cripple baltimore with payroll add-ons. 3. the count seems to be the second best (or best if you hate prior) pitcher offered. 4. the sox are not in the AL East. 5. tejada wants traded to a contendor. 6. arnie munoz was just rated the best prospect in baseball by baseball america. I'm confused on part 6. Otherwise I agree with you.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 06:31 PM) O okay, thanks. Its either a full year from the draft or something like until May 15th. The draft is in June in case people are curious.