Chisoxfn

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 23, 2005 -> 10:00 AM) In offer 2, the Cubs are giving up Prior and Hill for arguably the best SS in the game, a #3 pitcher, and a top OF prospect. Prior isn't worth that much. Hill only has his curve as of now(even Cub fans admit this). 2 is a bad deal for the O's. Thats exactly what I said. However, the deal is fair if you take Bedard out of the deal.

QUOTE(Chek2002 @ Dec 23, 2005 -> 09:33 AM) I saw this rumor out there: "Reports now indicate that now the Chicago White Sox may be the third team involved in the Tejada deal. The trade would have to be something like this: The Cubs get Tejada and cash , and Baltimore gets Contreras, Garland, and OF prospect Ryan Sweeney from the White Sox, and the White Sox get Prior and a prospect from Baltimore." It's no secret Kenny Williams has been trying to move Jon Garland, who's already turned down at least one contract extension. This deal would greatly improve Baltimore's rotation giving them two front of the rotation starters in one shot. It would also give the White Sox more room financially to sign Buehrle to an extension after the '07 season." What do you think? OMG, thats the f***ing worse trade rumor I've ever seen. So we trade Contreras and Garland plus Ryan Sweeney for Prior. Ya right. By the way I should add if someone gave me a guarantee that Prior was healthy, I'd insanely enough make this trade. But since that guarantee doesn't exist, this would be a purely assinine move. Unless we also got ourselves Eric Bedard and Julio or something along those lines. On a sidenote, the cubs and Sox ain't making a deal together, imo.

The Cubs ruined what could have been an amazing rotation by killing the arms in games where they were running away with things. I'll always remember Baker trotting guys out with 120 plus pitches when his team was up 4 or 5 runs.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 23, 2005 -> 09:48 AM) He could just as easily have a bad season. Look at the various inconsistent seasons he has put up. http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/ml...3845&statType=1 Encarnacion's career #'s .268 AVG .316 OPS .440 SLG .756 OPS A .756 career OPS from a starting right fielder is pretty bad and that's where the Cardinals will be playing him. Last year was the best season of his career (.796 OPS). He isn't a good option as a starting right fielder and the fact that he will be earning $15 million over 3 years makes it even worse. The fact is that unlike Reggie Sanders, he can play all 3 outfield positions and he can play them well. The Cards saw all those injuries last year and in Encarnacion he can kind of play all over the place. I should add I think Reggie Sanders is over-rated and I've never been much of a fan at all of his. This will be the 1st time in his career that he isn't in an extreme pitchers park (LA, Florida, and Comerica used to be a big time pitchers park before they adjusted the fences and before that he played in old tigers stadium). I'm just saying I'd probably take him over Reggie Sanders. I think he's more likely to hold up for 3 years and be decent as opposed to Sanders who I think will stink and fall apart and not be healthy for a good chunk of the year.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 23, 2005 -> 07:40 AM) To me, all of those deals greatly favor the Cubs. What are the Orioles thinking, my goodness. Prior is a china doll and Corey Patterson is someone they're dying to dump. Rich Hill is a nice prospect, but they would be raping the Orioles here. I hope Angelos is not that stupid but I fear he is. The O's can't back in and give up Bedard. They do that and its not a bad deal at all for the Cubs. However go for Hill, Prior and Patterson for Tejada straight up. Now thats a deal thats fair enough, imo.

Encarnacion isn't near as bad as some of you say he is. He'll probably hit 15-20 Hr's, hit .270, and he can play all 3 outfield positions.

Happy Bday Willie. Hope its a good one

Happy Bday everyone

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 23, 2005 -> 01:22 AM) Nope. Nice, isnt it? Yep. I don't know what the hell the draft class is talent wise, but regardless I'd think if the Bulls wanted to (and they'll have money) they could use that pick on a player they want or put it in a package for a pretty good player. I'm kind of excited about that. Hopefully the Bulls can muster into the playoffs though. They have really suffered from having one really bad quarter pretty much every game. Plus they seem to make a habit of blowing big leads. Its so frustrating. Blowing an 8 point lead tonight too.

Talk about over-reacting.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 07:54 PM) As it stands right now, #2 and #17 Of course we could get lucky as hell and cash in with the #1 pick in the lottery, but we will probably get f***ed with #7 or somethign. So the Knicks picks weren't top 3 protected?

Am I the only one that thinks the Mariners would be nuts to deal Reed for Arroyo. I'm not a big Arroyo fan and I realize pitching is king, but Jeremy Reed is a good defensive outfielder and will be a good hitter. Plus he's going to be cheap for quite a bit longer. Bavasi is all over the place. Of course, at the same time, pitching is king and when your in a pitchers park you better make sure you can play to your stadiums strenght (ie pitching). He got stupid and paid huge bucks for hitting (power hitting) and should have built his team on speed, defense, good average hitters, and pitching.

Fogg could turn into a solid reliever, but Viz is hands down a better reliever than Fogg. Despite what some people say about Viz, the guy had a total rubber arm and pitched very very good in the 2nd half of the season with the Sox. The harder he was worked the better he pitched. Fogg doesn't have that sort of resilient arm and I've yet to see him put up good numbers out of the pen. Plus Fogg isn't any more attractive than Sean Tracey or Baj, imo.

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 02:24 PM) Not true when it comes to labor issues. MLB has an "antitrust exemption" that allows it some amount of protection against antitrust lawsuit by competing leagues (e.g., the Federal League in 1915) and against claims by individual owners that the league is restraining trade by not allowing them to move their team into a new city. Not terribly long ago, the owners and players went to Congress after they had agreed that the antitrust exemption should be removed for labor issues. Thus, collusion among teams when it comes to player salaries is no longer OK. In the collusion proceeding relating to the 1986 and 1987 free agent markets (Fred Lynn and Carlton Fisk got a bunch of money out of this), I believe that the owners had agreed NOT to collude in the labor agreement that came out of the 1985 collective bargaining agreement (if you recall, baseball had a 2-day strike in 1985). Thus, when they did collude, it was thus subject of an arbitration over the terms of the contract. I believe the owners paid something like $270 million (maybe it was $170 million) as a result of losing that arbitration. You are correct. Quite a few players were still getting checks as recently as a few years ago from that incident. The owners really got hammered.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 01:43 PM) I'd imagine a salary floor would be more likely to pass within the union than a cap. Force Tampa, Kansas City, whichever other teams hold low payrolls to spend atleast 50 million. I agree, I think this would be the 1st step and the owners would be taking a serious risk in this. They'd essentially have to agree to a floor with the hopes that when the bargainin agreement came up 4 years later (or whenever the agreement would end) that they would look at it and than come up with a max number as well (I don't think the owners would risk this).

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 01:35 PM) I wouldn't mind it. You dont' even need to set it at $70 million. $100 million is fine. Obviously, the luxury tax isn't helping lower market teams very much. Something is wrong with baseball when the Yankees outfield is paid more than the entire Devil Rays roster. I'd set the max around 100 mill, but the min would be somewhere pretty high as well (something like over a 3 year period your avg payroll must be a certain amt. The problem is sometimes you can put together a very winning team at a lower payroll because you have prospects at good values. I dont' think teams should necessarily be punished for that. At the same time players need to know that if there was a salary cap, teams couldn't just sit way below it still. The cap works in the NFL because teams are almost always spending roughly the same amount.

QUOTE(WinninUgly @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 01:35 PM) Now if you were Jon, would you rather play on a Championship team for $8 million a year, or a losing team willing to pay you $10-11 million a year? Considering the winning team wouldn't offer him more than 4 years (and I don't know if they'd go to that point) and the losing team would offer him at least 5, possibly 6. I'd take the extra 12 million over the 4 year deal, plus your guaranteed another 10-11 mill for 1 or 2 extra seasons (which would be 24 million).

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 05:52 PM) 1st one looks about even, but the Orioles want a marquee name to replace Tejada. Offer 2 is a pipedream for the Cubs. I guess Jim Hendry isn't done trying to rip off teams. Are you kidding me. Offer 2 is such the stronger package.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 03:53 PM) Orioles will laugh at offer A, and offer B would be a terrible trade for the Cubs. Agreed. Although I don't see the O's dealing Bedard in any deal with the Cubs (imo).

QUOTE(VAfan @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 11:01 AM) I can't seem to copy their stat lines over from ESPN, but Brazoban's ERA was 5.33 over 72 innings with 6 blown saves, 32 walks, and a WHIP of 1.40. Broxton's line was worse: 13 innings, 5.93 ERA, 12 walks, 1.83 WHIP, 1 blown save. Luis Vizcaino, by comparison, pitched 70 innings, posted a 3.73 ERA, walked 29 guys with a WHIP of 1.47, and blew only 3 saves. So other than the fact that you think these guys arms are great, it looks like Vizcaino performed quite a bit better than both last year. Sure, Brazoban and Broxton are both quite a bit younger than Vizcaino, but that may or may translate into performance next year or beyond. I'd rather have a 6-deep dominant rotation than to be worried all year that we're screwed if any of our starters go down. Especially with 3 of them putting in extra innings in the World Baseball Classic. (Remember Buehrle's foot injury at the end of spring training last year? Luckily, it wasn't anything.) Look at Broxton's periphs. The guy was fresh into AA and he's possibly the best closer prospect in the minors right now. As far as Brazoban goes, teams would love to have him. He hit a funk when he lost his closers role, but he has had success at the major league level. The problem was he got rushed into the closers spot. And in Elbert we are getting a guy that would be our top pitching prospect along with Broadway.

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:56 AM) This is exactly the type of deal he's trying to make. I'd be excited over it and if the relievers panned out it would give the Sox two guys that they'd have control over for quite a few more years and thats really key if you want to have a good bullpen (its really hard to keep your bullpen strong via FA, imo).

Ok lets presume Kenny wants two relievers in a deal: Elbert or another prospect from the Dodgers, Broxton, and Brazoban. Brazoban is a major leaguer reliever that started to really struggle late last year, however he did notch 22 saves and has a power arm. Broxton is a converted reliever who was called up late last season and has a power arm and a good slider. Elbert is an A ball rookie thats on par with Gio Gonzalez. Not a bad looking deal cause the Sox can slide Brazoban and Broxton into the back of there pen and let the two develop. Plus you have a shot at letting Tracey compete. Would this not be a fair enough deal?

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:30 AM) I'm not sure I see why your so down on the pen right now. We have 4 very talented guys in there right now if you include Brandon, one who can be very solid if healthy, and imo a prospect that is a perfect fit for the pen in Tracey. I would like to see Kenny add another reliever or two if possible but our pen certainly isnt in bad shape imo. I'm a believer of putting in as many good arms as you can because you always have guys get hurt or guys that end up having a down year. That way if you have more talented guys the odds of more of them panning out are greater. When it comes to relievers they tend to be more inconsistent so its nice to have plenty of options. Plus Jenks hasn't exactly been up for an extended period of time and he has had arm troubles. If he stays heatlhy I'm confident in him.

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:23 AM) That's the problem. KW doesn't want to enter the offseason with a hole in the starting rotation. If he goes in with MB-FG-JG-JC-BM as his rotation he is gonna lose JG and have to fill that hole. Instead he has a rotation that will be together for 2-3 years I understand that part.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:25 AM) How about the Indians and Twins than . As for closers im 100% confident in Bobby Jenks.... and if he gets hurt or cant handle it I have no problem going to Cotts or if he is ready to play Hermanson. The Twins pen helped them get 3 consecutive division titles and the Indians pen helped get them close (had it not stunk right at the beginning of the season theyd' have been in better shape).