Chisoxfn

QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:20 AM) Not many here were excited when the White Sox got Jenks, or Politte, or Cotts or even Marte who was very good for a time. Point being, they've been pretty good at identifying pitchers they believe can blossom or turn things around. Maybe some weren't, but I saw talent in each of them. I give the Sox credit for all those moves. However, if you trade Garland for guys that are suspect relievers than its stupid. A Garland trade can rejuvenate our farm system while at the same time getting us a guy like Jonathon Broxton who can come into our pen from the back. Than all you have to do is give up some of our prospects or find a non-tender guy the club has interest for the other pen spot (or they could get ballsy and enter spring training as is and see what Tracey/Baj/Broxton do and hope two of them earn the job). My point is that giving up a starter for relievers is stupid when were talking about a front line starter. I dont' know why I'm getting so riled up over what Levine said and I am happy Kenny knows he needs to fill the pen, but getting a mediocre reliever or two is far worse than getting a couple big time arms from the Dodgers or someone else. I am willing to wait and see how things play out. I know one thing, Garland is going to have another good year next year.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:14 AM) Dude, is there some reason why we think Bobby can't handle that role for the next 6 years before his arbitration eligibility runs out? I read at least 1 piece a few weeks ago talking about how teams were dumping huge amounts of cash on "Established closers", when at the same time teams like the White Sox and the Nats and the Marlins were discovering that it really wasn't hugely difficult to find people who have the ability to come in and close games for much less money than say, a BJ Ryan is going to earn. (Mariano Rivera, btw, remains in a class by his own). No, but I have zero problem having two badass relievers that will be cheap for a long time. Relievers are inconsistent, they tend to have some awful years mixed in (well most of them) and they can get hurt. I have zero problem ensuring we have depth and if we are dealing Garland we should be getting some darn good relievers in return. I want talent in the pen and our pen is lacking that at this moment. A deep bullpen will be such an aid to get into the playoffs. Almost always teams with strong strong bullpens make the playoffs in this day and age. Not many teams have them, but when you do, you don't blow your leads and are able to get momentum. You also are able to keep your team in games which lead to come from behind victories. The Sox were able to do that last year, this year we need arms. If Kenny is just looking for similar arms to viz and Marte, we better not be dealing Garland to get them, that would be foolish. Unless we are also getting a #1 prospect along with that (in which case I say great, go for it).

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:13 AM) I agree with it, but you're a smart enough fan to be able to read KW's actions/words. There's a reason so many of us will be shocked if Garland's on the 2006 roster. I would definitely rather just get value for Garland, and worry about filling the relief spots after that. When KW sets his mind on something, he usually puts in a ton of effort to get the move done. Thats what I fear

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 09:59 AM) His son obviously had no class: "Heroes: the D.C. Snipers, cause they let ya'll crackas kno tha ya'll aren't carzy race in the world" That is off is website. Not that class makes you deserve death any more/less. I hope to hell that page isn't his sons page. If it is, I hate to say it, but i feel a whole lot less sad. I just feel for his family that lost him, but looking at that site, the guy looks like a 1st class prick.

QUOTE(chimpy2121 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 06:31 AM) I woke up and heard this on ESPNradio. This is such a sad story. His son, 18, was pronounced dead earlier this morning. Tony went from being on top of the world last week to being absolutely crushed and at the bottom of the world. Needless to say he left the team and went to Florida. This is a terrible occurance. My prayers go out to the Dungy family. Horrible news. Tony Dungy is such a great and classy coach. Thoughts and prayers go out to his family.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:07 AM) You know I agree with that. Everyone knows he wants to deal him now. And if he has his mind set on that, then we may be in some trouble. Consequently, if he hangs onto him what are the positives and negatives: Positives: Bullpen is better with BMAC Pitching staff is better with Garland Maybe increase his value at trade deadline May increase offers May open doors for more extension talks Negative: May only get draft picks May hurt BMAC's dev He may regress into the Garland of old. Exactly, I'd be in no hurry to move him. I think the positives far outweigh the negatives. Plus, if were going to pick up a reliever, I'd probably rather deal our own mionr leaguers for one and than let Garland get us some stud prospects because thats better value on the most part. Thats unless were talking about a big time closer that we'd have the rights to for more years. Like if the nats were crazy enough to deal us Cordero.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:04 AM) Redding isn't very good at all. It will take a couple of injuries for him to ever get an actual chance to be a contributor with the Sox. In the end, I think the Sox just hope he can stick around Charlotte and help out the Knights. I doubt anyone is going to offer him a major league job at the end of spring and if they don't, I think he'll report to AAA.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:03 AM) I know that the biggest fear I have, as well as RockRaines, is that KW is so set on trading Garland, that he might take a lesser offer just to get rid of him. If KW is just set on getting relievers, then we're not going to get full value for Garland. Unless that reliever is Brad Lidge. Here's a total odd ball thing to throw out, but what would people think about a package surrounded by Krod. I doubt the Angels would even listen, however, Krod has had some durability issues and the Angels could turn Escobar into there closer. Shields would obviously be great, but we'd have to get a front line prospect along with him and I can't see the Angels doing that. Stoneman never gives up prospects and instead he's always just sitting and waiting for guys to develop. Thats why Angel fans are going to have to watch Jose Focking Molina be there everyday catcher.

QUOTE(WSFAN35 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 10:01 AM) mcdonalds is a billion dollar industry and their people make 6.75 an hour Not the higher ups. The key players at McDonalds (ie the guys in the corporate office) are getting paid very well I'm sure (plus there are more key players involved in McDonalds than MLB).

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 04:40 AM) http://www.suntimes.com/output/sox/cst-spt-sox22.html That part of the article is laughable. Redding had one good season in 2003 with the Astros but has pretty much been horrible his entire career. But I guess he's worth a shot as a long reliever / injury spot starter if he has a good spring training. I remember him getting shellacked with the Yankees last season though. He's implying that he'll get every shot to start during spring training since the Sox guys are going to be pitching in the WBC. Regardless this isn't a horrid move. He could be the last guy out of the pen if he's healthy.

You know whats crazy, but if the Sox follow the Angels model and I tend to think they will (ie how the Angels have totally turned into a major market team playing 40 miles outside the 2nd largest market). Well I just talked to my Angels tix rep and according to them the team is expected to be entirely sold out before single game seats go on sale. They will be wait listing season ticket holders for the 1st time in franchise history (ones that want to become season tix holders). I think if the Sox do things right and win for the next few years (I mean get into the playoffs and compete) than I think thats what the future beholds. Although I assume, even when wait listed, there must be some sort of individual tickets or am I wrong?

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 09:53 AM) Well then you are just as greedy. Same goes for Rowand44. I understand what you guys are saying but can't players just be humble for a minute? And I do agree, it is a 2-way street but it doesn't eliminate the fact that athletes are way overpaid. They aren't overpaid. They just accept what they get offered. I absolutely despise the idea that some people get jealous because athletes make so much money. Its a billion dollar industyr (the sports industry) and the key players are going to make big bucks. Why the hell shouldn't they?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 08:14 AM) You cant put contreras as the best pitcher on the team at this point. He had a great second half, and a good postseason. But He has posted and ERA of over 5 in 2 of his 4 full seasons in the MLB. Jon hasnt posted a single season above 5 when he pitched full time. And since Mark has been starting full time, he has only broken a 4 ERA ONCE from 2001 to 2005. Last season the best starter for the full season was Jon Garland...hands down. I love Buehrle, but he really hit a funk at one point and Contreras was amazing in the 2nd half but had a so-so 1st half (maybe even worse than so-so). Get your heads out of your asses and realize this. We will be trading our best pitcher of last year whose entering his prime and instead go with a guy in Vazquez who has great stuff but has b****ed and moaned the last two places he has gone while not living up to his potential. I'm sorry, I hate this move and I wish the Sox would take its chances on Garland. Worse case we get draft picks. I liked this team better before we made the Vazquez deal cause the Vazquez deal meant he was going to replace Garland in the rotation. However, financially I understand some things. But we are defending world series champs, keep the god damn pitching staff in tact or upgrade it, but don't give up our best starter from last year unless your getting a s***LOAD in return. Ken Williams will get hammered by me if he doesn't make some good moves. I don't buy into this Jon only will play on the west coast either. He's being smart, but no one is going to tell me if you didn't offer him up a 5/60 deal he wouldn't at least think long and hard. I'm not saying do it, but maybe you throw it his way near the middle of the season and move someone else. Garland has been steady and really turned a corner next year. I'll be shocked if he isn't amongst the NL's best next year (if he does go to the NL).

QUOTE(Cerbaho-WG @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 11:23 PM) Would all the Garland bashers who say such ignorant bulls*** like Garland had a "so-so" second half take the time to back their s*** up? Oh wait, if they looked at Garland's second half splits, they'd see that while there was a minor drop off in production stats, he averaged barely over a hit an inning and had a 3.65 ERA. He also had a bad month in August and then bounced back to a solid September and a great start in October. Hey guess what guys, Freddy Garcia had an ERA of 4.28 in the second half. Mark Buehrle had an ERA of 3.84 in the second half. Only Jose Contreras had a better second half ERA startingwise than Garland. And all of you are ready to chuck him out the boat? Why aren't you people saying the same stupid s*** about having a bad career prior to this season about Contreras? Jesus f***ing Christ, open up your goddamn eyes. I think Garland is possibly our 2nd best starter. I happen to think he can be better than Buehrle, but he is hands down better than Freddy.

We better get two damn good relievers. Cause if I read that right...a major league one, and one on the cusp I think of Brazoban and Broxton and I'd throw up at the idea of that. Its not getting enough. We have something EVERYONE wants and we better not get talent for it. I'm sorry, we gave up Chris Young for Vazquez (there were financial reasons as well) but nothing tells me we shouldn't get a little more for Jon Garland.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 09:39 PM) Best five teams in the AL: 1) CHW 2) CLE 3) NYY 4) OAK 5) ANA Notice who is not in there. No way is Anaheim better than Boston. Right now Anaheim has a crappy rotation, a weakened pen, and no offense. They have a good mgr and a great defense.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 09:23 AM) Depodesta did have that kind of money, you're forgetting. The Dodgers payroll sits at about $90 million this year...last year they spent $83 million on paying salaries, and I don't think that includes the $10 million or so they dumped on Arizona to get them to take Sean Green. And the Dodgers currently have only 4 starting pitchers, so they still have a spot open. They're at least talking to Weaver still, who is a Boras guy, along with Millwood. They want to start Billingsly @ AAA this year. Plus Coletti was insistent early in his tenure that they wanted to rid themselves of Odalis Perez. He may have had a change of heart though, after he saw the type of money starting pitchers were getting in this market. I also think if you see JD Drew do anything wortwhile this season, that they will do all they can to unload his ass at the deadline or during next years off-season. Plus didn't Dreifort's contract finally come off the books this year (you know 11 mill they were paying him) and than obviously Weaver's off the books, so while they have spent they aren't using more money than Paul had.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 04:07 AM) You think Paul DePodesta wishes he had this type of money to splash around? Probably not good news on the Jon Garland front either; They will shift some payroll eventually and they are looking for a front of the rotation starter. Tomko doesn't qualify as one. Jeff Weaver would (in there minds) but who knows if they can get him. Garland would too as would Milly.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Dec 22, 2005 -> 02:31 AM) It's pretty sad that the Royals continue to pick up over-the-hill players over the years instead of playing their prospects. Either way, they aren't going to compete so what's the difference? At least if you play your prospects you get a chance to see if any of them are really good. The problem is the Royals have s***ty prospects at most of the positions so in most instances they are better off going with veterans and hope they can eventually turn those veterans into good prospects. The Royals farm system for the most part BLOWS.

If the O's deal for Prior they so win that trade. However, the O's should hold onto Bedard. They need to bolster there pitching and giving up a guy like Bedard would be stupid. I also think it would be stupid for them to than turn Prior into Manny. However, if I were the BoSox I'd do that deal and find a way to get another bat (bats are easier to get than front line starters).

Spiffster. Glad your back. I had been wondering where you were. It sounds like you gone through hell and back, but at least your better now. Hopefully in a week or two you'll have all your energy back

QUOTE(White Sox Josh @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 08:51 PM) never said he would but you never know. Chances are he makes it anyways. Ozzie loves the matchups. Would you of said Neal Cotts is going to be one of the best setup men in baseball before 2005? No you wouldn't. Ya, I'd have said that about Cotts. In fact I have said it about him in the past.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 08:16 PM) Muenster is a bastard cheese. Its unwanted?

QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 09:14 AM) http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/21/...rial/index.html I laughed for 10 minutes straight after reading this. I strongly doubt this is true but even if it is does anyone really give a s***? Thats the thing, he deserves to be beaten. I could give two s***s if he cries a foul. Regardless i doubt its true and I hope we didn't do it.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Dec 21, 2005 -> 08:05 PM) I have no patience for the "well if you only understood that they live in a remote area with no opportunity". Oddly my father just after I was born, packed up the family with barely nothing in his pocket moved from Ireland to the US with pretty much no money, joined the Army, got out and worked a few jobs while he went to school at night, then made sure that all of his kids got their educations and went to college. Nothing that a lot of hard work, and some vision cannot fix. You can blame the walmarts of the world, or you can better yourself and your situation. People can get their degrees or learn a trade. If you dont want to go to college, become a carpenter, electrician, pipe fitter, or something. But dont get the job at walmart and then b**** because they are not paying you enough.